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Old Jul 14, 2011, 06:44 PM
Psalms 23:4
Goshen, IN, USA
Joined Nov 2010
267 Posts
Idea
X-tail plane

i've seen v-tail planes, and that gave me an idea for an x-tail. with the proper mixing you could control yaw, pitch, and roll from the same surfaces. would there be any practicality in this, or would it just weigh the plane down with too much equipment, and decrease it's performance?
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Old Jul 14, 2011, 07:51 PM
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
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United States, LA, New Orleans
Joined Jul 2002
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Mini, we don't recall seeing any X tail planes around here ... The only way to know is to try it out ... sounds like a Cool idea !!!
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Old Jul 14, 2011, 08:46 PM
Psalms 23:4
Goshen, IN, USA
Joined Nov 2010
267 Posts
would you have any idea how to setup the mixing for a plane like that? i would probably need a lot of v-tail mixers, since i couldn't get enough on my radio...
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Old Jul 14, 2011, 09:49 PM
gpw
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Seems you would need V tail mixing of some sort ... Why not try making the top of the X work as a V tail , the bottom fixed... ? ... as a start ... Just an idea ...
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Old Jul 14, 2011, 10:26 PM
Psalms 23:4
Goshen, IN, USA
Joined Nov 2010
267 Posts
the point of having the x is to get better control. with the x, the surfaces should cancel each other out, allowing for cleaner control. i don't know if you're getting what i'm saying, but the point is, with ailerons for example, the top and bottom would counteract each other, allowing for purely roll, without any pitch. the same would apply to rudder and elevator. just my theory.
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Old Jul 14, 2011, 10:34 PM
Rusty
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Auckland, New Zealand
Joined Feb 2006
918 Posts
All DLGs are X tail - but you want one without any surfaces parallel to the wing.
The inverted Y is also sometimes used.
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Old Jul 14, 2011, 10:43 PM
Psalms 23:4
Goshen, IN, USA
Joined Nov 2010
267 Posts
what i'm thinking about doing is mixing the v-tail and the inverted y, only it would be more like an inverted v and a regular v-tail. again, this is all in theory, but i would like to test it out. do you know how many v-tail mixers it would take to set it up like this?
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Old Jul 15, 2011, 06:28 AM
gpw
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Thinking just the one ...
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Old Jul 15, 2011, 11:10 AM
Sussex, UK
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Crawley, West Sussex, UK
Joined Jun 2004
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I don't think you'll be able to control Roll, because all the surfaces would be much closer to the centre line than the wing tips. Some jets use the tail for roll, but they have short wings and wide tails, and go so fast they don't need efficient controls.

Otherwise, just set it up like a V tail.

I think the reason it's not common is that the lower part will be damaged easily when it lands.
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Old Jul 15, 2011, 11:28 AM
Psalms 23:4
Goshen, IN, USA
Joined Nov 2010
267 Posts
the point isn't to have an x shaped tail. i want to have all four surfaces moving. with an extra large tail, and large control surfaces, i think it would be possible. if i would dial down rudder and elevator, but leave the ailerons on full throws, i think i could be able to control roll with it too. i want to be able to control pitch, roll, and yaw using all four surfaces for each one.
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Old Jul 15, 2011, 12:29 PM
Just call me crash for short
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United States, OH, The Plains
Joined Jan 2011
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What you might be thinking about is something like this? I have seen several built like this, some worked better than others. Careful about how big you make the tail. Too big can be as bad as too small. If I am remembering correctly, the shorter the tail booms were on this type of tail, the less effective they were.
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Old Jul 15, 2011, 02:46 PM
Psalms 23:4
Goshen, IN, USA
Joined Nov 2010
267 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick61 View Post
What you might be thinking about is something like this? I have seen several built like this, some worked better than others. Careful about how big you make the tail. Too big can be as bad as too small. If I am remembering correctly, the shorter the tail booms were on this type of tail, the less effective they were.
that's exactly what i was thinking!! how effective is this design?
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Old Jul 15, 2011, 03:30 PM
Sussex, UK
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Crawley, West Sussex, UK
Joined Jun 2004
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Quote:
i think i could be able to control roll with it too.
Do a little maths - compare the total area of your control surfaces with the area of normal ailerons (probably about the same, maybe the X-tail will be twice as big). Then multiply each area by the average distance from the centre-line. At a guess, ailerons will have about 4 times as much power as your tail.

If you use large surfaces, with big control throws, it might be controllable but it'll cause more drag than normal ailerons for less effect.

What would work would be an X-shaped model, like the Pogo
hobby-lobby.com Pogo (1 min 4 sec)
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Old Jul 15, 2011, 04:00 PM
Registered User
United States, TX, Houston
Joined Jun 2011
297 Posts
seems like you could get it done with a Y harness and a pair of v-tail mixers, similarly you might be able to do it with a pair o Y harnesses and v-tail mixing on your radio, if you set it up like a regular V-tail and just hook the upper and lower tails to the same linkage (both control horns would have to be on the same relative side of control surfaces) you might be able to get it done without extra crap, but wouldn't be able to control roll

tricky part comes when you want to be able to roll with the tail surfaces as well as use the v-tail functions, interested to see what comes of it.
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Old Jul 15, 2011, 04:05 PM
Psalms 23:4
Goshen, IN, USA
Joined Nov 2010
267 Posts
i want to have a 3 axis plane, without having any other surfaces. so i need to be able to do all three functions from the tail.
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