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Old Feb 27, 2012, 12:39 AM
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what is difference btw LiOn & Lipo?

What is the difference btw li-On & LiPo battery?
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 04:20 AM
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Hi guy, may be you mean the li-ion battery. Li-Po battery has a polymer cathode and a solid electrolyte, while Li-ion has a carbon cathode and a liquid electrolyte, and the batteries we use in the phone or notebook computer are Li-ion, and the RC cars and planes' batteries we use are li-po, for they could provide more power, and could make the size that you want, at last there are some info below.

A. Li-po

⑴ No liquid electrolyte, so never leak;
⑵ Can be made into various shape;
⑶ Can be made into thin battery, such as 3.6V, 400mAh, the thickness can decrease to 0.5mm;
⑷ Battery is transmutable and can be crooked: the maximum angle is 900;
⑸ High voltage in an battery: several battery with liquid electrolyte can be connected in series to get a high voltage only; the Li-polymer battery can get high voltage in an cell through multiplayer combination;
⑹ Same volume Li-polymer batteries’ capacity is two times of Li-ion battery.

B. Li-ion

⑴ High energy density;
⑵ High operation voltage;
⑶ No memory accumulation;
⑷ Long cycle life;
⑸ No pollution;
⑹ Light weight;
⑺ Very low self-discharge rate.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 05:10 AM
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What Lightman2012 says is probably all correct (I'm no chemist), but for us modellers there are a couple of differences which are of more significance than others:-

1. LiPos come in soft cases and, if abused, can vent and flame. Abuse includes physical abuse such as occurs in a crash, charging or discharging too fast, charging or discharging to too high or too low a voltage, or storage in extreme conditions, such as a hot car.

2. The Li-ion packs we normally use are LiFePo4, most commonly a brand known as A123. They come in hard cases, like regular batteries, and If abused they may vent through a safety valve in the case, but they're unlikely to flame or to create vast amounts of smoke like LiPos do when they flame.

3. LiPos are lighter than A123s, for the same energy content, and can be obtained in almost any capacity. A123s generally come in 2300mAh or 1100mAh capacities only, though there are other brands of LiFePo4 that may come in other sizes. Despite being heavier than LiPos, A123s still have a significant weight advantage over NiCd or NiMh, so they're still quite popular.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 06:18 AM
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I always took it that A123 batts were by themselves at 3.3 volts per cell and Li-ion were the round cell 3.6 volts per cell as found in many power tools, although the newer ones are rated at 3.7 volts, the same as lipos. My chargers have settings for all three.

Gord.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by abenn View Post
1. LiPos come in soft cases ....
Many pack LiPo are HardCase, you probably come from a flying background. Many use hardcase lipo in there rc cars and trucks.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 06:26 AM
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Many pack LiPo are HardCase, you probably come from a flying background. Many use hardcase lipo in there rc cars and trucks.
Good point But out of interest, how hard are the cases, and are they vented so that they won't explode, instead of simply flaming and smoking, if they are over-amped?
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 06:31 AM
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Some are plastic, some carbon or at least given the appearence of carbon. Some are venter as they have holes for the wiring and some have no wires included but you must connect the wires in them using bullet connectors.

The case is there for protection from outside force. Punctures,hits, dings etc....
As for how they would handle a swelling from the inside?????? Never had one go bad on me.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 11:53 AM
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Ques to Abenn,
A123 is a brand name which makes LiIon cell?
LiFe is another brand name who makes LiIon cell?
Thanks.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 12:17 PM
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Neither one is li-ion as A123 and LiFe are 3.3 volts. Li-ions are 3.6 volts.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 01:27 PM
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A123 is a brand, LiFe is the chemistry.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by congcon97 View Post
Ques to Abenn,
A123 is a brand name which makes LiIon cell?
LiFe is another brand name who makes LiIon cell?
Thanks.
Here's the A123 cells that I (and many others) use http://www.a123systems.com/products-...rical-cell.htm. You'll have to read their web site to find exactly what the chemistry is.

LiFe and Li-ion are descriptions of the battery chemistry -- Li = lithium, Fe = iron; and ion is simply a charged particle, which could be any chemical.
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Old Mar 04, 2012, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Lightman2012 View Post
Hi guy, may be you mean the li-ion battery. Li-Po battery has a polymer cathode and a solid electrolyte, while Li-ion has a carbon cathode and a liquid electrolyte, and the batteries we use in the phone or notebook computer are Li-ion, and the RC cars and planes' batteries we use are li-po, for they could provide more power, and could make the size that you want, at last there are some info below.

A. Li-po

⑴ No liquid electrolyte, so never leak;
⑵ Can be made into various shape;
⑶ Can be made into thin battery, such as 3.6V, 400mAh, the thickness can decrease to 0.5mm;
⑷ Battery is transmutable and can be crooked: the maximum angle is 900;
⑸ High voltage in an battery: several battery with liquid electrolyte can be connected in series to get a high voltage only; the Li-polymer battery can get high voltage in an cell through multiplayer combination;
⑹ Same volume Li-polymer batteries’ capacity is two times of Li-ion battery.

B. Li-ion

⑴ High energy density;
⑵ High operation voltage;
⑶ No memory accumulation;
⑷ Long cycle life;
⑸ No pollution;
⑹ Light weight;
⑺ Very low self-discharge rate.
My friend I think I can add 1 more difference with ur thread.
LiPo battery should not be discharged 100% whereas LiIOn can be. For an instance, U can continue talking over ur cell phone until the last bar of the charge or the battery is totally out of charge.
But if it was Lipo, could u do so? Ans is "No" .
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Old Mar 04, 2012, 11:14 AM
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Both Lifes and Lipos ARE Lions. They are a subset of.

Many cell and laptop batteries are actually Lipos, but are marked on the case Lion's.
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Old Mar 04, 2012, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by congcon97 View Post
My friend I think I can add 1 more difference with ur thread.
LiPo battery should not be discharged 100% whereas LiIOn can be. For an instance, U can continue talking over ur cell phone until the last bar of the charge or the battery is totally out of charge.
But if it was Lipo, could u do so? Ans is "No" .
Many cell phone and laptop batteries are "smart batteries". They shut down at a certain voltage, likewise they stop charging at a certain voltage to prevent overcharging.
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Old Mar 04, 2012, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by flypaper 2 View Post
Neither one is li-ion as A123 and LiFe are 3.3 volts. Li-ions are 3.6 volts.
They're ALL members of the Li-Ion family of cells. So are LiPo cells. In fact, the proper scientific terminology for LiPo cells is "Lithium-Ion Polymer". Yeah, there are differences in construction and cell chemistry but they all store electricity via the transfer of lithium ions between an anode and cathode.

The biggest difference between "conventional" Li-Ion cells and LiPo cells is the electrolyte layer between the anode and cathode. Conventional Li-Ion cells use a fabric saturated with a liquid or gel electrolyte and LiPo cells use a solid polymer electrolyte.

The main advantage to a solid polymer electrolyte is it can be bonded to other layers in a laminate form. In LiPo batteries, this laminate is comprised of an anode layer, the electrolyte layer, and a cathode layer and it's not necessary to compress the layers because they can be bonded to one-another. That's why LiPo cells can be produced in a soft envelope and other unconventional forms.

But you can't laminate a liquid or gel to a solid. Layers in cells using liquid or gels either have to be flooded (like lead-acid cells) or compressed and THAT is why conventional Li-Ion cells and other cells with a liquid or gel electrolyte (carbon and alkaline cells, for example) are typically manufactured in cylindrical housings: The layers must be compressed and that's easy to do by rolling them up and shoving them into a tight-fitting cylinder.

Yeah, it really is that simple.

As for the "surface" LiPo packs with hard cases, the case itself doesn't actually have a role in the cell construction. The case is there to protect the cells from impact and crush damage which is pretty common for cars. That kind of protection is typically eschewed by model aviators, though, because it adds so much weight and planes aren't supposed to suffer that kind of abuse.

Pete
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