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Old Nov 20, 2012, 07:48 PM
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Question
Is the Flying Wing a floater? Wing Loading?

Wing Loading Question of this 2m Flying Wing.

http://www.icare-rc.com/manta-e.htm

I'm sort of ignant about the Wing Loading....
whats a typical glider Wing Loading to be a floater?
(power 'OFF' gliding). I've flown a Radian and that thing Floats forever.

Whats a 3m powered Glider Wing Loading (on average)....?
....ie.....
I see that the new
E-Flite Mystique 2.9m has a Wing Loading of 10.9 oz/sq. ft. which is decent as a floater?



Specifications: of the 2m Flying Wing I asked about?

http://www.icare-rc.com/manta-e.htm


Wing Span: 2.0 m (71")
Wing Area: 42 dm2 (651 sq. in.)
Wing Airfoil: S mod.
Wing Loading: 33 g/dm2 (10.8 oz/sq. ft.)
Flying Weight: >1.4 kg (49-54 oz)
Radio: Sub Micro servos and micro receiver recommended
Motor hotline 1400
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 09:04 PM
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I would not consider the Manta to be a floater. A real floater of most any configuration, in the two meter class, will be a good deal lighter and have, at least, three axes of control. Depending on airfoil one would want to be under about eight ounces per square foot.The Manta would be more for high speed bank-n-yank than thermal soaring.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 09:06 PM
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peterlngh,
thanks for the response.

Will the Manta be prone to stalling when power 'off' gliding?

p.s.
I do'nt know much about the plane, but what size Flight Lipo will this take?
(how much mah?) hope its fits a huge Lipo....



I cannot find any videos' of this plane flying?
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 09:09 PM
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I seem to recall that in the Windlord article Ken Bates suggested that a plank style wing should have about 70% of the loading of a "normal" model.
Based on that 10.8 ounces would be equivalent to 15.5 ounces - pretty high!
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 09:21 PM
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Pmack....

so your saying its a nice floater? or very close to a floater?

(sorry, I don't understand the 10.8oz vs 15.5oz)

"Pretty High" ?
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 09:22 PM
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Floater? This is an electric aerobatic glider, sort of the exact opposite of a floater.

Looking for something that turn heads? The Manta-E will not leave you unseen. Its non common shape. The cool and easy flying will bring you lot of fun. Speed passes, aerobatics, fast rolls and many other tricks can be flown with it. Flying wings do not have any bad behavior, so no need to an expert to fly the Manta-E.

Typically, when we talk about floaters, we are talking about thermal duration gliders that fly very slowly and typically have very little in aerobtic abilities. The float! This is more of an aerobatic warmliner.


A Radian is a floater. Big wings, light wing loading (around 6.5 oz/sq ft) with no real aerobatic tendency. Aerobatics typically require speed and, as described by the web site, this is built for speed. This is absolutely not a floater, it is an aerobat. I would not buy this or thermal duration soaring and that is what floaters are for.

These are floaters:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1736666
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 09:23 PM
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aeajr,

whats the 10.8oz vs 15.5oz ?

acrobatic at 2m?
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexusFPV View Post
aeajr,

whats the 10.8oz vs 15.5oz ?

acrobatic at 2m?
Don't know, wasn't my post.

The higher the wing loading the faster the plane/glider has to fly in order to support its weight. At 2 meters, floaters would typically be under 7 oz/sq feet and "superl" floaters would be under 6. But that is just my opinion. Others would see it differently.

Wing profile, wing span and other things would impact how the glider flies, but as soon as the description starts talking about speed and aerobatics, that is a clear statement that this is NOT a floater. Floater are slow and docile, not fast and aerobatic.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 11:36 PM
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Hi again.

What we are saying is that the Manta is designed to have the strength to use a lot of power and a relatively high wing loading to maintain a lot of speed. It would be very limited in soaring ability. It's closer to a "warmliner" or even a "hotliner". I am not familiar with it's exact performance envelope. Perhaps it would be most simple to just compare the paper specifications for a "real floater" in the 2 meter class to the Manta. The Pegasus is of a lighter build, lighter weight, lower power, and has a very good airfoil for efficient soaring i.e. "floating".

http://www.espritmodel.com/pegasus-2e-f5jales-arf.aspx

Here's a link for an example of a conventional electric sailplane that would have very similar overall performance to the Manta. When one looks at the power and wing loading and overall weight you will see that there's a good deal of difference between the two classes.

http://www.espritmodel.com/butterfly-sport-2e-arf.aspx

In simple terms: the Manta and Butterfly are designed to achieve a fast climb and high speed buy brute force and then have the strength and momentum to maneuver at high speeds. The Pegasus, and other floaters, use just enough power (or maybe a little extra!) to achieve an efficient climb and then make use of every little puff of rising air to sustain flight.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 06:39 AM
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...do you have any suggestions that a 80" + that floats and has decent speed envelope?
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 08:09 AM
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Power has nothing to do with whether a glider is a floater or not since the power is used for 30 seconds to a minute to get it to height and then turned off for the rest of the flight. It is what happens after the power is off that demonstrates whether a given glider might be called a floater.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 08:12 AM
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are there big gliders (80" + ) that are floaters and can be sport flied too?
ie....?
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 08:29 AM
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What is the obsession with the word floater?

Why don't you tell us what you want the glider to do. Thermal soaring? slope soaring? Speed? Aerobatics?

Sport flying? What is sport flying? To me, sport flying is what I am doing when I am not in a contest. How about you? Other than that, the way I fly is the same.

The size and speed of the motor has no bearing on the concept of a floater. If you plan to fly it with the motor running then you are not flying it as a glider and the question of floater does not even apply.

A BMW and a school bus are both vehicles. Both can be used to commute to the train station and both can be taken to the grocery store. So both are vehicles. They must be the same, right?

Can I use them to go to the movies? Can I use them to go shopping at the mall? Can I carry 30 passengers to a party? Absolutely, but the BMW will take more trips.

But I think you understand why you would buy one over the other. It is what you want it to do.


Get off the word and get on to the "DO", what do you want the aircraft to do?

Floaters float. That is what they do!

I am not trying to scold you or insult you, I am trying to help you understand. Your questions should not be about the word, they should be about the "do".


Super Ava- E - $1100 - Among the kings of floaters.
WL 6.6 oz as an e-glider Under 5 as a pure glider.
147" wing span - it floats and thermals well. That is what it does.

Sport flying? Sure. That is what it is doing when it is not in a contest.
http://www.kennedycomposites.com/avapro.htm
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 08:55 AM
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aeajr,

thanks for the explation,.... I will "do" it :-)

(my "do" is AP flying and FPV flying.... I love to just power 'off' and cruise for long long distances
and sightsee landscape that I'm exploring...., and I was looking for a powered glider that can cruise at decent speeds when the motor is 'off'....you get my drift ;-) That was I meant when I mentioned
"floater".....)

Now I understand....
That Super AVA Pro is nice....

but I was looking at these powered gliders, what do you think?
I was reading up on the TopModel CZ (fascination, 3.6m, there seems to be smaller versions of this in wingspan sizes 2.5m, and 3.2m)
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 09:03 AM
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Without links I can't comment on the gliders. Notice that I provided a link so you could see what I was talking about. You can't expect us to know every glider made by every maker.

Oh, so now we know what you want to do. Since FPV and AP are your interest you should really be over in those forums. You can ask here all day but the people who really understand your issues are over there.

You want to know about the ability to take equipment, space to put it, how it handles with the extra weight, etc. That is all related to the "do".

If you take a Radian and add 16 ounces of FPV or AP equipment, it ain't a floater anymore as I would talk about floaters. You have taken a light wing loaded aircraft and added 16 ounces of ballast in order to carry equipment. Floater doesn't even apply.


Good luck with your new aircraft, whatever you get, but I think you will be better served in the AP or FPV forums. Not a place I visit.
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