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Old Jul 14, 2013, 08:37 PM
The Prez....... again
kenh3497's Avatar
United States, IA, Rockwell
Joined Jul 2011
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Kraft Super Fli

EDIT: The actual build starts at post 128 if you want to skip ahead


I don't know if this is a good idea or not. In my infinite wisdom I am going to build a Kraft super fly from scratch. Plans in the size I want are not available so I discovered some PDF files of the original plane on Flying Giants posted by the pilot of the plane back in the day. My plan is to take those PDF files and extract what I want and build a set of plans to build from. I have no idea if I carry this to the end or not. I tend to get sidetracked a bit at times

I would like to document what I have done to research this plane and put it in a place where it can be found. Will my research be "right", who knows! It will be what it is. I'll do my best to post all my research. Hopefully it may help somebody in the future.

So here we go........

Ken

EDIT;
Here is a list of threads I've started pertaining to this project. My intentions is to have a resource for those that may need a few questions answered. Maybe the answer will be provided.

Importing a PDF into a CAD program other questions. some not answered
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1955820

Sizing a tube to join the wing panels
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1960224
http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=84608

Choosing airfoils
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1966909
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11582402/tm.htm

Wing incidence, down and right thrust
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...2#post26042296

Home made Miter Sander
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1989283

I think that is all for now. I'll edit this list as needed.
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Old Jul 14, 2013, 09:02 PM
The Prez....... again
kenh3497's Avatar
United States, IA, Rockwell
Joined Jul 2011
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I had the Bridi kit of the Fli way back when it first came out. I loved how it flew. Now I come to find out there was a revision of the original plane with a sleeker cowl and spring landing gear. This will be the version I will build. I can only find one video and a couple of photos of the sleek version so those will have to do. The basic structure of the airframe was unchanged. I have the PDF files below so you can open them if you wish and enlarge to see details. The Fli is very "model like" in construction. Only a few things will need to be changed to build off the plans directly. Two of the PDF sheets are drawn in 1/8 scale and the general layout sheet is 1/16 scale. There are lots of dimensions so if push comes to shove plans could be drawn using the PDF's as a reference.
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Old Jul 15, 2013, 07:02 AM
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Traverse City, Michigan
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I'm happy to see that you decided to go ahead with this !

I'll follow your progress, Ken.
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Old Jul 15, 2013, 07:44 AM
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Nice project and 'different'! The pdf's are really nice to have.
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Old Jul 15, 2013, 08:01 AM
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Dang it ! I was hoping we could watch you put all those louvers in the "Pitts" cowl !

We're not here to judge your efforts, but to applaud anything you do to preserve the memory...

How large you going ?
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Old Jul 15, 2013, 11:44 AM
The Prez....... again
kenh3497's Avatar
United States, IA, Rockwell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epoxyearl View Post
Dang it ! I was hoping we could watch you put all those louvers in the "Pitts" cowl !
Another reason to NOT do the original version
We're not here to judge your efforts, but to applaud anything you do to preserve the memory...

How large you going ?
I'm thinking about 1/4 scale, plus or minus a bit. That will put me at 73 1/2 inch wing span. I'm going to try to size the plane so the engine fits wholly within the cowl, It may be an exercise in futility I have a Saito 120 looking for a home although the Fli may have to share with the Goldberg Pitts????? Maybe I'll look for a newer engine for the Fli????? I'll build the plane first and see where it leads me......

Tom & everybody this may be a bit slow as I'm trying to teach myself some CAD skills at the same time. I had a little help form the CAD/CAM section of RCG and am now trying to trace over the PDF drawing to to produce a true CAD drawing. SO far, my progress is VERY slow and I've started over several times. My first mistake was not sizing the PDF correctly. After my false starts, that will get changed tonight and I will start over again. On the up side I am getting some practice drawing curves and such. I have no doubt the "new plans" will not even be close to perfect but should be close enough for church work. Heck I'm even thinking "plans" might not even be necessary There are enough dimensions on the PDF's to set up and build. I'm sure that's how the original was built.

Ken
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Old Jul 15, 2013, 11:57 AM
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I have a OS 1.60 gemini that would sound great in one of these.
If I remember correctly, Kraft used a Pitts Cowl and landing gear on the original.
Does anyone know when the cowl and gear mods were made, pre or post Kraft ownership?
The plane still exisits and is a horrid concoction of a round cowl and Staudacher??wing I think. It has been sitting in a Hangar in MD for many moons now.
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Old Jul 15, 2013, 12:09 PM
The Prez....... again
kenh3497's Avatar
United States, IA, Rockwell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhaywood View Post
I have a OS 1.60 gemini that would sound great in one of these.
If I remember correctly, Kraft used a Pitts Cowl and landing gear on the original.
Does anyone know when the cowl and gear mods were made, pre or post Kraft ownership?
The plane still exisits and is a horrid concoction of a round cowl and Staudacher??wing I think. It has been sitting in a Hangar in MD for many moons now.
Phil still owned the Fli after the new cowl and LG were fitted. It went on the air show circuit in that configuration. I think this link will take you to a video of the Fli in action at Brown Field in CA in 1980. I'm at work so I can't test it for sure.

1980 Super Fli at Brown Field, San Diego, Ca.wmv (10 min 6 sec)


I guess the "thing" is for sale but is not airworthy at this time.

Ken
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Old Jul 15, 2013, 12:15 PM
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Here is a great thread at RCU that might offer some helpful and/or interesting information.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_80...m.htm#11101814
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Old Jul 16, 2013, 10:21 PM
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Since I've never built anything larger than a "60" size model I'm wondering what size the stock should be for the tail surfaces. The rudder0 will stand 13 11/16 inches tall at 1/4 scale. What would any of you suggest i use to have sufficient strength?
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Old Jul 16, 2013, 10:27 PM
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1/4" or 5/16" square stock is fine if you plan on having functional flying wires. I built a 1/4 scale, 72" Laser years ago with a 1/4" framed tail with flying wires. Never a bit of trouble.
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Old Jul 17, 2013, 06:26 AM
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On my Brougham, I use 1/4" stock for the leading edges. While the wire braces did stiffen up the stab and fin, I find myself wishing that I had gone to a little heavier stock.
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Old Jul 17, 2013, 07:09 AM
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After thinking about it....I think I used 1/4 x 3/8 for the leading edge and I know I used 1/4 x 1/2 for the trailing edge. I also used a 1/4 x 3/8 spruce glued parallel to the trailing edge for stiffness. All of the truss work was 1/4" square. I also used spruce for the pieces the flying wires were attached to so that they would not crush when the bolt was tightened.

I think the vertical was pretty much the same way minus the spruce doubler. There was also 1/4 sheet that was in the middle of the stab and at the base of the vertical. On the vertical this was to give something for the turtledeck to glue to as well as the covering to stick to. On the horizontal it it was the base for gluing to the fuse and again for the covering. I ran the sheet out probably and inch or so beyond the fuse sides. I am guessing the Super Fli was built much the Laser and Stephens Akro which had a truss type construction in the stab. I think the Pitts used something similar to what master builder Tom is showing above.
You can copy his work, from what I have seen he is a first class builder and painter!
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Old Jul 17, 2013, 08:20 AM
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Thanks for the compliment !


You guys are talking about smaller models, than my Ryan. After thinking about it, 1/4X3/8 should provide the strength needed for tail surfaces. Using wire bracing would really stiffen up the structure.
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Old Jul 17, 2013, 09:41 AM
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I'm all for that-1/4 x 3/8" hard stock for the outlines, softer stuff for the ribs.

I'm suggesting, though not demanding, 1/16 " sheet cores to keep light from shining through the covering, unless you're painting it. The cores add almost no weight, while nearly doubling the strength.

Did you start cutting wood yet ? We're waiting !

In post # 10, the picture shows the fin leading edge being 'flattened', to join the thinner rudder. That's interesting,to build a scaler assembly...I never knew that..
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