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Old Aug 21, 2015, 03:22 AM
STEVEAIR2 is online now
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Question
Could someone here crunch the numbers ?

HI ALL
I HAVE A HABU 2 READY TO GO BUT WAS WONDER IF SOMEONE COULD DO THE SUMS ON THE POWER TRAIN .
I HAVE A MEGA MOTOR AC n 30/16/1 AND THE SPECS ARE
6 POLE 4200 KV SINGLE WIND
MAX AMPS 80.
I HAVE A CASTLE EDGE 100 ESC
AND A SCHUBELER DS30 HDT FAN (3 BLADE)
I HAVE A 4S 60C 3200 BATTERY AND A 30/65 3800 BATTERY.
I BOUGHT THIS AS A 4 S SETUP BUT ECALC IS TELLING ME THE MAX IS VERY CLOSE.
IT DRAWS 73AMPS AND GIVES ABOUT 1079 WATTS .
MY CONCERN IS THE BATTERIES GET VERY HOT ON A SHORT TEST RUN AND THE MOTOR STUTTERS AT THE MAX THROTTLE.I DONT THINK IT IS THE LVC AS IT STOPS WHEN YOU BRING IT BACK 2 CLICKS.
ALSO AM I RIGHT IN THINKING THIS SET UP IS ONLY GOOD FOR ABOUT 3 MINUTES.


I WOULD BE VERY GRATEFUL FOR ANY HELP.

CHEERS
STEVE.
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Old Aug 21, 2015, 11:16 AM
turbonut is offline
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4200 kv is a too much for 4s. You may be over 100 amps . Not that it wont work but you are pushing the system too hard. I have not run my schubi in a bit so dont remember the exact numbers.
at that power level you can only use full throttle for very short times. and your batteries are too small. you should have at a min 4000mah. and then you still cant run full power for more than a few secs at a time.
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Old Aug 21, 2015, 12:59 PM
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Also need to look into wire gauge and what type of connectors you're running. Inadequate sizes will cause extensive heat buildup as well. The stock Habu 2 has a 70mm EDF unit I suppose, but has that also been altered as well? I knew someone in the past who put an 80mm or 90mm in one so did you modify this as well?
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Old Aug 21, 2015, 01:09 PM
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The Schubeller 30 is a 70mm fan. Only has 3 wide cord blades so the load is different than most fan. But pulls numbers sim to a Wemo.
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Old Aug 21, 2015, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbonut View Post
4200 kv is a too much for 4s. You may be over 100 amps . Not that it wont work but you are pushing the system too hard. I have not run my schubi in a bit so dont remember the exact numbers.
at that power level you can only use full throttle for very short times. and your batteries are too small. you should have at a min 4000mah. and then you still cant run full power for more than a few secs at a time.
+1. I have a Velocity 4200kv in a Wemo Pro, CC Ice 100, on 4s. Full throttle on Thunder Power 3300mAh 65C batts is 118a and pulls them down to 3.22v/cell. Lotta power but only for a couple seconds at a time. A real lipo slayer.
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Old Aug 21, 2015, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STEVEAIR2 View Post
HI ALL
I HAVE A HABU 2 READY TO GO BUT WAS WONDER IF SOMEONE COULD DO THE SUMS ON THE POWER TRAIN .
I HAVE A MEGA MOTOR AC n 30/16/1 AND THE SPECS ARE
6 POLE 4200 KV SINGLE WIND
MAX AMPS 80.
I HAVE A CASTLE EDGE 100 ESC
AND A SCHUBELER DS30 HDT FAN (3 BLADE)
I HAVE A 4S 60C 3200 BATTERY AND A 30/65 3800 BATTERY.
I BOUGHT THIS AS A 4 S SETUP BUT ECALC IS TELLING ME THE MAX IS VERY CLOSE.
IT DRAWS 73AMPS AND GIVES ABOUT 1079 WATTS .
MY CONCERN IS THE BATTERIES GET VERY HOT ON A SHORT TEST RUN AND THE MOTOR STUTTERS AT THE MAX THROTTLE.I DONT THINK IT IS THE LVC AS IT STOPS WHEN YOU BRING IT BACK 2 CLICKS.
ALSO AM I RIGHT IN THINKING THIS SET UP IS ONLY GOOD FOR ABOUT 3 MINUTES.


I WOULD BE VERY GRATEFUL FOR ANY HELP.

CHEERS
STEVE.
Hi Steve,
I think we've been over this a few times before. Let me reiterate.

ANY 4100-4200 kv motor is considered "hot". (pulls a high amps_ in a 3-5 bladed 69-70mm EDF.
A good 100A ESC will be fine. The castle has a burst current od 170A. Your CC Edge 100 will be fine. Be sure it gets good cooling air flow (same for ALL ESCs)

The Mega is 61.5mm long and is more robust that the 48mm long ARC was.

Here are the specs for the 16/30/1:

Number of Winds: 1
KV: 4200
Lipo Cells: 4
Max. Current: 80
Resistance 1 Phase: 2
Weight: 135g
Diameter: 28 mm
Length: 51.5 mm
Shaft dia: 4mm


Designed mostly for race category
models of ships ECO EXPERT (MEGA AC 16/30/1, MEGA 16/30/1E). MEGA 16/30/1,5R are
designed for impellers with diameter 70-80 mm for 5S and for quicker models.

4s motor for most 70m EDF's.... approx 1450W

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ....



Mega motors will take 20% over the rated, all day long. and even higher. A few years back, tons of folks were running the ARC 28-48-1 on 4s and even 5s. (~1800+W)

In the jet you might see 95A on 4s, This is normal.
You'll need good quailty lipos (4000mAh) that are 30c min (higher preferred)
You should be using 10GA more wire, and 6mm bullet connectors. (not those springy things!)
I would run a heat sink even for 4a with any 4200kv motor.

Just for reference, here are the spec's for even higher kv (4250) ARC motor:

Diameter: 28mm
Length: 48mm (Long Can)
Turns/ Windings: 1 Turn
1 Turn @ 12V:
No Load Current: 2.8A
Rm: 0.009 Ohms
No Load Speed: 51,000 rpm
Recomended Output: 500 watts
Rated Current: 50 amps
Rated Speed: 35,000 rpm
KV: 4250
Weight: 113g
Shaft: 3.17 mm
Approx Weight: 110g
Poles: 4
USING SCREWS LONGER THAN THOSE PROVIDED CAN SHORT THE WINDINGS AND RUIN THE MOTOR. TEST FIT SCREWS BEFORE TIGHTENING.

500 watts recommended power, this motor requires sufficient cooling. As with all of the ARC's this can be exceeded as long as the motor stays cool. We recommend using an alloy EDF housing, our finned heat sink, (or both) and thermal transfer compound to help conduct heat between the motor and heat sink, as well as between the motor and an alloy housing if used.

This is a "hot" wind motor. We recommend our 28mm finned heatsinks and themal compound

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ....................



Your motor a super fast 4s motor. If the amps are too high for you. please us a lower kv motor. (3200-3400kv)
but you will see greatly reduced speeds.

You will be fine with this motor on 4s, You have the proper ESC just give it what it requires in the way of the other peripheral equipment.

hope that helps.
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Old Aug 21, 2015, 04:31 PM
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Steve,

BTW,


My composite F-20 flies with the ARC 4250kv motor, CC ICE 100 and 4000mA 40c, sky lipo's in a Minifan pro, on 4s and 5s (5s is very fast).
Brent's (Corsair nut) F-20 flies with the same 4250 motor in the HET 6904 EDF on 4s and 5s. and is about the same speeds.

I recommend you stay with 4s max.

efflux RC / Air Sally, full composite F-20 Maiden (7 min 21 sec)



Brent's F-20 Tigershark on 5s (5 min 45 sec)
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Last edited by efflux RC; Aug 21, 2015 at 05:36 PM. Reason: typo
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Old Aug 21, 2015, 06:21 PM
STEVEAIR2 is online now
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Hi Guys
Thanks for all the help . I was just a bit nervous about the power output when I ran up the fan.
Gary, thanks again I don't want to become a pain. I really appreciate your help. Any idea why the motor would stutter at full throttle?.

After this I will just have to fly it.
Cheers
Steve
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Old Aug 21, 2015, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STEVEAIR2 View Post
Hi Guys
Thanks for all the help . I was just a bit nervous about the power output when I ran up the fan.
Gary, thanks again I don't want to become a pain. I really appreciate your help. Any idea why the motor would stutter at full throttle?.

After this I will just have to fly it.
Cheers
Steve
Hey no prob Steve.


73A @ 1079 watts is not that high. I feel it will be higher with the right lipos and installed in the jet.


There are two types of stutter.

A "waa waa waa" is usually LVC (lipos depleted) ... or lipos not being able to provide the amps the motor is pulling. Your batteries are too small for the amps being drawn. You need at least 4000's.

A sharper, harder stutter sound, is usually from the PWM not being high enough.

Set the PWM rate (in the ESC) to 12

I would set the timing to 6 degrees.

Br, Gary
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Last edited by efflux RC; Aug 21, 2015 at 06:57 PM.
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Old Sep 01, 2015, 06:04 AM
STEVEAIR2 is online now
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Well It flies!!!
Thanks for all the help it was much appreciated..
Cheers
Steve.
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