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Old Nov 02, 2013, 01:35 PM
Boo
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Atlanta vs Aurora vs Illusion ? 60 size pattern planes

Hi,

I am trying to decide which of the above planes is best suited for what I want, the RCAIIR Atlanta or Aurora or Illusion to suit a YS61-RE Classic engine and pipe ?

One thing I'm really keen on is getting the pipe internal to the fuse and hidden in side profile at the same time as having the trike undercarriage with noseleg. So whichever of the above is going to be the easiest to do that is what I prefer but I have to say the Aurora is the best looking to my eyes...

Boo
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Old Nov 02, 2013, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Boo View Post
Hi,

I am trying to decide which of the above planes is best suited for what I want, the RCAIIR Atlanta or Aurora or Illusion to suit a YS61-RE Classic engine and pipe ?

One thing I'm really keen on is getting the pipe internal to the fuse and hidden in side profile at the same time as having the trike undercarriage with nose leg. So whichever of the above is going to be the easiest to do that is what I prefer but I have to say the Aurora is the best looking to my eyes...

Boo2
Boo,

the Atlanta and Aurora are both designs that use inverted rear exhaust engine setups. They are also both late 80's early turnaround designs primarily designed for long pipe long stroke engines. That's particularly so with the Aurora which is the largest and heaviest of the three. That said, there would be no problem with using the short stroke YS classic on either one.

The Illusion is an earlier design, smaller, lighter designed for side exhaust engines with a pipe either slung under the wing or centered in a tunnel in the wing belly pan. If you want a trike gear setup as you should, I'd venture that the Illusion will be the trickiest of the builds if using the YS Classic as the model is really more easily setup with a side exhaust engine. The design of the model (really a modified Tiporare) is such that even with a SE engine, getting the nose gear retract and exhaust header in the same zone is somewhat tricky and requires "special" headers and pipes.

The Atlanta and Aurora also both require offset fuse top headers (to clear the nose gear which is mounted off to the side) but the design makes them easier to setup as you have full access to the area since they have full length belly pans (nose ring to rear of pipe).

In a nutshell, either the Atlanta or Aurora would be my suggestion. Which one you choose is a matter of which lines/design you prefer. They both build in a very similar way except that the Aurora has a clear canopy whereas the Atlanta has a canopy which is integral to the glass fuse.

David
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Old Nov 02, 2013, 03:04 PM
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Just my opinions......

Atlanta and Aroura are similar planes....Japanese designs, inverted rear exhaust with pipe running through a belly pan. I have an Atlanta but have to tell you I like the lines of the Aroura better. Both are swept wing designs. Don's Aroura has a clear canopy which is faithful to Naruke's design, but I'm more drawn to painted canopies.

Illusion us basically a Tipo with the pipe on the bottom if I'm not mistaken. I don't believe the pipe is fully enclosed. The wing is a double taper.

I've always heard the a swept wing does ruling maneuvers better and the double taper loops better. Story back in the day was get the one you don't do as well. Hell, I say get what makes you happy.

Doug
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Old Nov 02, 2013, 07:46 PM
Boo
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Thanks to you both for your replies.

Does the fact that the planes were designed for long stroke engines mean I might be better off with a different engine than the YS61-RE Classic ? Like say a Nova Rossi or something ?

And I read references that said getting the nosewheel gear to fit requires particular retracts, has anyone got any up to date info on which modern retracts that are known to be good to get in beside the pipe header ? Electric preferred...

I'm still stuck as to which I prefer but if they are both equivalent in the above respect I think I will come down on the Aurora - it just tips it for me in the looks stakes. Is the heavier weight and bigger size of this plane an indicator that maybe a .90 should go in or is a piped .60 plenty ? I know for my Flair Swallow I was running a YS110 and that's a similar sized plane if a bit lighter.

Boo
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Old Nov 02, 2013, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boo View Post
Thanks to you both for your replies.

Does the fact that the planes were designed for long stroke engines mean I might be better off with a different engine than the YS61-RE Classic ? Like say a Nova Rossi or something ?

And I read references that said getting the nosewheel gear to fit requires particular retracts, has anyone got any up to date info on which modern retracts that are known to be good to get in beside the pipe header ? Electric preferred...

I'm still stuck as to which I prefer but if they are both equivalent in the above respect I think I will come down on the Aurora - it just tips it for me in the looks stakes. Is the heavier weight and bigger size of this plane an indicator that maybe a .90 should go in or is a piped .60 plenty ? I know for my Flair Swallow I was running a YS110 and that's a similar sized plane if a bit lighter.

Boo
Boo,

You are welcome. I am an e-power convert but I can still give you some thoughts.

I think the new YS Classic will be a monster in your Aroura. I've seen Richard's in person and i bet it's more powerful than most 90's. Putting a 90 in it would be a mistake in my opinion. Get the YS and the off-set Hitori header and pipe, turn an 11 x 9 prop and watch that thing scream.

DO NOT get electric retracts like the E-Flites. The nose gear will not survive the YS vibration. Just get some MKs from Central Hobbies as that is what the plane was designed around. See the pictures of my Atlanta to see what it will look like.

Doug
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Old Nov 02, 2013, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boo View Post
Thanks to you both for your replies.

Does the fact that the planes were designed for long stroke engines mean I might be better off with a different engine than the YS61-RE Classic ? Like say a Nova Rossi or something ?
Boo,

The long vs short stroke is not a major issue other than "prop optimization" for each type of engine. The SS are best on 11" props while the LS are better on 12-13". The NR RE is an excellent engine as well but although it is technically a LS, it can turn much higher RPM's than the typical classic OS/YS long stroke. The latter engines might be somewhat better suited for the Aurora/Atlanta as they are "pumped" and tend to be easier to handle in inverted configurations. The YS 61R/AR LS use the same crankcase as the ringed 61 classic SS so you could set your plane up with it and if you decided you prefer a larger slower prop, you could look at swapping it out for a 61AR (although discontinued).

Quote:
And I read references that said getting the nosewheel gear to fit requires particular retracts, has anyone got any up to date info on which modern retracts that are known to be good to get in beside the pipe header ? Electric preferred...
Smaller frame units will be easier to install but I'd definitely go with mechanicals or pneumatics (Spring Air) at most. Electric nose gear units are prone to failure in a high RPM glow environment particularly with electronics right beside a hot header. I'd stick to mechanical units such as Hobbico or Dave Brown units.

Quote:
I'm still stuck as to which I prefer but if they are both equivalent in the above respect I think I will come down on the Aurora - it just tips it for me in the looks stakes. Is the heavier weight and bigger size of this plane an indicator that maybe a .90 should go in or is a piped .60 plenty ? I know for my Flair Swallow I was running a YS110 and that's a similar sized plane if a bit lighter.

Boo
The piped YS classic is very strong and will be fine. The plane was designed with the slightly less powerful older long strokes. There are few 90's that will come close and fewer yet in a RE configuration.

David
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Old Nov 02, 2013, 08:45 PM
Boo
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Originally Posted by Fatherof4 View Post
I think the new YS Classic will be a monster in your Aroura. I've seen Richard's in person and i bet it's more powerful than most 90's. Putting a 90 in it would be a mistake in my opinion. Get the YS and the off-set Hitori header and pipe, turn an 11 x 9 prop and watch that thing scream.

DO NOT get electric retracts like the E-Flites. The nose gear will not survive the YS vibration. Just get some MKs from Central Hobbies as that is what the plane was designed around. See the pictures of my Atlanta to see what it will look like.
Hi Doug,

Who sells the Hattori pipe dyk ?

I can't find MKS retracts on the CH site but have found an MKS nosegear here on the Singahobby site, is that the one you mean ? :

<edit> I see Singa do the SP type here http://www.singahobby.com/?q=node/22317 & http://www.singahobby.com/?q=node/31733 as well as the SS type here http://www.singahobby.com/?q=node/22318 and http://www.singahobby.com/?q=node/22319 . Was it the SS type you had in your Atlanta ? </edit>

Boo2
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Old Nov 02, 2013, 09:07 PM
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Boo,

The MK SP retracts are sold by f3aunlimited.com.

David
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Old Nov 02, 2013, 09:22 PM
Boo
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...snip...
Smaller frame units will be easier to install but I'd definitely go with mechanicals or pneumatics (Spring Air) at most. Electric nose gear units are prone to failure in a high RPM glow environment particularly with electronics right beside a hot header. I'd stick to mechanical units such as Hobbico or Dave Brown units.

The piped YS classic is very strong and will be fine. The plane was designed with the slightly less powerful older long strokes. There are few 90's that will come close and fewer yet in a RE configuration.
OK, thanks for the advice, you both seem unanimous that the YS61-RE Classic is the motor to stick with and that was my preference anyway so I'll go with that.

As for the retracts, they need to mount on the "ceiling" of the pipe tunnel whereas the DB ones don't look like they'll work because they are bulkhead mounted, do you happen to know whether the Robart units will work OK ? They are easily available in the UK, eg here just down the road from me and will save some international shipping if so.

Will I need 5/32" struts or 3/16" for an Aurora/Atlantic ? I guess 5/32" ~ 4mm will be fine...

Thanks,

Boo
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Old Nov 02, 2013, 09:55 PM
Boo
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Originally Posted by doxilia View Post
The MK SP retracts are sold by f3aunlimited.com.
Thanks !

Boo
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Old Nov 02, 2013, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by doxilia View Post
Boo,

The MK SP retracts are sold by f3aunlimited.com.

David
Yup, my bad.

Doug
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Old Nov 03, 2013, 03:49 PM
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Pictures of the Atlanta nose gear to help you understand how it all fits. Pretty sure the Aroura is similar.
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Old Nov 03, 2013, 06:52 PM
Boo
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Originally Posted by Fatherof4 View Post
Pictures of the Atlanta nose gear to help you understand how it all fits. Pretty sure the Aroura is similar.
Thanks Doug, I had already seen those photos on another thread but can't find it now. Can you tell me what pipe and header is fitted to your plane ? I've looked around and I think MACS do a pipe and "left hooker" header which might work, I'll have to email them to see what they say. Also, are those the MK S60 retracts or the MK SP retracts ? I can probably get MK retracts cheaper from Singa than from the USA but I don't know if they have both types. I'd really prefer to use Robart mechanicals because they are available here but I don't know whether they'll fit or not ?

That's one of the nicest looking planes I've seen, BTW, it's turned me from considering the Aurora to the Atlanta to be honest, can you tell me how well it flies ? Did you have to do much tweaking from to get it trimmed ? (I heard the dihedral on the plan for the Atlanta is wrong, did you build it stock ?)

Boo
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Old Nov 04, 2013, 11:50 PM
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Boo,

I have attached a picture of the MK retract package for you. I actually traded Paul my Header and "Bent" pipe for the retracts. I think other guys here can give you the model numbers of the header and pipe that you need. (I just dont know that stuff)

I built my Atlanta stock 25 years ago and then trimmed from there. I can tell you that I cut the wing to take dihedreal out of it and reglassed it. (Pretty common back then when we were lucky to have one mix on a Green Label Futaba PCM.) If I get a chance I will measure it for you. It is great flying airplane. I only fly my Conquest IVe now but that is because it is electric which suits me better.

Lastly I have attached another picture of my Atlanta for your viewing pleaure and motivation. This picture shows the repainted canopy that Kevin did for me in 2012.

Doug
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Old Nov 05, 2013, 07:22 AM
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The Aurora mounts very similar to the Atlanta that is pictured. I will try to take some pictures of the one I am building to show you.

Father of 4, do you use a single servo for the gear on your Atlanta? I am still trying to figure the best way to link my NLG on my Aurora, and the geometry on that airplane does not lend itself to well to a single servo setup.

Boo, I have a new YS 61RE that I am going to use on my Aurora and I am sure it is going to pull just marvelously. I may need a second to put on the Cosmos that I have hiding under my bed!

Josh
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