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Old Nov 21, 2012, 11:43 AM
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When did this get so crazy??

All I see here nowadays is people arguing over which CLONE is better than the other and threads about how to build the cheapest 700 class heli with the cheapest electronics and FBL system
When did people just totally take caution and throw it away and just buy because it is cheap???? Does the old adage "you get what you pay for" ever come to mind when deciding on what to buy????
I just saw a thread where guys are upset that the YEP (YGE direct clones with inferior parts) were not in stock at HK. Has HK really dumbed the masses down????
Please people you have to realize, all it takes is for ONE bad incident to happen and WE ALL pay the price in the hobby. Please do the responsible thing and buy quality equipment, build it correctly, and fly responsibly. I would hate to read about someone getting hurt and us all getting thrown under the bus some day........Ron
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 12:01 PM
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I completely agree!

Well said.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 12:09 PM
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Seems to be an rcgroups thing. Not as rampant over at helifreak or runyder. Not the forums i visit anyhow. Its very much frowned upon.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dejavu*Xion View Post
Seems to be an rcgroups thing. Not as rampant over at helifreak or runyder. Not the forums i visit anyhow. Its very much frowned upon.
Agreed...I think that is because here in RCG there is a big majority of the flyers who start or started with these small clones and never get much beyond them. While in HeliFreaks there are more of the seasoned and knowledgeable fliers who have a lot of experience with 120's right on up to the BIG gasoline powered helis.

There are many here in RCG that still think that a 450 is a LARGE helicopter. They do not realize that one can get by with "cheap" in the small ones but that they are not going to be well served by cheap in the bigger ones. Of course as they graduate up to larger helis and use the cheap clone stuff, many will ultimately learn their lessons and finally by appropriate gear for these larger sizes.

many of these people do not know that the quality larger manufacturers (e.g. Hirobo, Century, MinAir, JR, Thunder Tiger, Vario ) were making larger helis (550 sizes plus) for 25 plus years and have much more experience at it then do these younger companies (including Align)...and most clone manufacturers do not even understand the different grades of aluminum or GRP plastics.

Unfortunately, those who start with them do not realize the value of components that do not develop slop or fail until well after 500+ flights etc. Due to their experience with these lower grade clones, they think premature wear and early component failure is par for the course.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 03:56 PM
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I've noticed the big difference in chat between the two sites as well. For example, I recently bought a Goblin kit, and there is so much information and excitement on HF on the Goblin as well as other high end brands. Start a Goblin thread here and listen to crickets as it falls off the forum within days. I mean really.....one of the most talked about helis in recent years, and not one active conversation here about it?

Nothing against the RCG guys vs HF guys, but it just seems that one side is a little more into higher end stuff, with serious experts to assist, vs a more noobish crowd that wouldnt cough up the cash for a good ESC for a heli like a Goblin, much less the heli itself. I really never realized there was a such a difference until I started spending much more time on the other forum. It's like you go to HF if you need help with something..........you go to RCG if you want to help someone. At least with helis anyway.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 04:44 PM
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If they would be the same it would be boring.

I like RCG for the many topics about components that might deliver a good price/performance ratio.

The price of something in the free market is not relative to quality at all. It is calculated for what someone is willing to pay for it. In short: "what the nut wants to give for it"

Skimping on quality might seem a bad idea, but if you dont fly close to your face like i see on some video's (mainly HF) i think your not taking a huge risk for injury.
IMHO this hobby should not be considered safe anyway...... but crossing a street can also kill you. We just have to be a little responsible, especially with the larger heli.

I hope no one will ever get hurt, but i fear Tareq or the likes might just mess up some day trying to shave its beard with a tictoc'ing 700.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sp00fman View Post
Skimping on quality might seem a bad idea, but if you dont fly close to your face like i see on some video's (mainly HF) i think your not taking a huge risk for injury.
.
That is what I am talking about. Apparently you have never seen an out of control Heli. You getting hit by your Heli is not as bad as your Heli hitting an innocent bystander.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 06:55 PM
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yep, no question about it, many of us here at RCGs are bad people

bad to the bone

it's all what you are into, I Iike Align helis and quality Align clones because they are easy to keep flying and parts are everywhere and they are fairly inexpensive. The folks at RCGs are awesome when it comes to getting help and advice on the low cost helis I fly.

One thing I did learn in my early stages of cheapness was my helicopter mechanics skills got lots of practice. Once I got away from the ultra-cheap components I didn't have to fix things as much
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 07:38 PM
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 05:00 AM
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Butt !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by laughingstill View Post
All I see here nowadays is people arguing over which CLONE is better than the other and threads about how to build the cheapest 700 class heli with the cheapest electronics and FBL system
When did people just totally take caution and throw it away and just buy because it is cheap???? Does the old adage "you get what you pay for" ever come to mind when deciding on what to buy????
I just saw a thread where guys are upset that the YEP (YGE direct clones with inferior parts) were not in stock at HK. Has HK really dumbed the masses down????
Please people you have to realize, all it takes is for ONE bad incident to happen and WE ALL pay the price in the hobby. Please do the responsible thing and buy quality equipment, build it correctly, and fly responsibly. I would hate to read about someone getting hurt and us all getting thrown under the bus some day........Ron
Where do you draw the line ?

$1000 - $2000 - $3000 - $5000 - $10,000 say when !

How about cheap cars ?
Cheap Bicycles ?
Cheap skateboards ?
Cheap clothes ?
Cheap food ?
Cheap Fuel ?
Cheap Water ?
Cheap electricity ?

Say when !

Cheap is relative ! ie: Related to personal wealth : One mans cheap helicopter is another mans expensive toy ,
One mans hobby is to another man a waste of time !

Here is a catch22 , Expensive helicopters crash every day , fly apart in mid air , and have the potential to do great harm ..

I dare say for every cheap heli that does a whoops , there is a expensive heli to match it ...

Maybe we should go back to the good old days , when it cost at least $5000 to get your foot in the door - and if we adjust $old to $new , that might be more like $20Large .. Aaaah the good old days , when helicopters were for the elite .

Here is an idea , every time you buy a heli , donate a Grand to the Salvation army . Now thats elite ! , make you feel really elite to boot .

A better idea to keep the poor or financially challenged from the hobby !
A federally mandated tax to cover personal liability , lets say 1000% tax on every heli kit , to cover all pilots from a whoops .
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 07:14 AM
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Cheap and low quality and down right dangerous are different from less expensive. You. An get an Align 450 in the air for $500 but you should NEVER try to get a 700 class Heli in the air for the same amount. There is just too much potential for serious injury.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 10:06 AM
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I see both good Points to this Debate. I dont agree with old4570 often, But ya gotta admit, he does make some good points. I can write from experience that i did try the cheap route when i jumped up a size into the 500's, ( hk-500) and it was just a mess. one problem after another, Most problems taking place in flight. ( I believe that to be the point of this thread)
I soon just payed the money for quality And the hobby has been much more enjoyable for me in the 500 class. ( and yes, safer as well ) I dont condemn the ones that do take the cheaper route, for reasons such as old4570's written above. To each their own. Its is my opinion however that once a hobbyist step up in size 500-600-700 Its better to save the money and spend when better quality can be afforded.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 11:33 AM
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To put it another way, I will quote a friend's analogy:

"You would never consider using a critical part from an ultra-lite aircraft to work reliably doing the same job on your full size airplane, so why think of doing so with our R/C aircraft."

And I will add, that I would bet that the full size airplane manufacturers could design and make a lot better and safer ultra-lite aircraft then the small ultra-lite manufacturer can.

The type/quality of metal or GRP plastic, servo quality, RX quality etc. that would pose a minor risk in a small heli (450 or smaller) will not be up to the task on the larger ones.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 02:19 PM
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Also people abuse the privilege of having a brain :

Ive seen video of larger [ cheap ] helicopters come apart in the air or on take off as head speed builds ..

Q, Why would anyone think a larger plastic heli can handle high head speed ?
Q. Why would they set them up , to have high head speed ?
Q. The larger the heli , the slower the head speed can be

For some strange reason , I dont know why ? , a lot of the video I have seen , these larger cheap [ plastic heads ] helicopters are pulling a lot of RPM ...

The goal , I would have thought , would be to find the near minimum head speed that the heli finds acceptable .. To fly well ..
I would have thought - So there is that [ common sense rearing its ugly head again ]

So maybe its not a $$ factor , maybe its a people factor , people do crazy things .

So how do you stop people from doing crazy things ?

You cant , and youtube is a medium for everyone to share the good and the bad ...
Hopefully - God willing - folks learn from the mistakes [ crazy things ] they do .
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 02:20 PM
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It's unrealistic to compare full size and toy helis. Some parts on full size helis have to be replaced after as little as 50 hours. (yes, I know that plastic links can wear out in much less than that!)

Toy helis can withstand much greater G forces than full size, and parts don't have to be computer-designed to the nth degree, with every last bit of surplus material removed to save weight. Space age metals don't need to be used.

Likewise on the safety aspect. Silly things like poor quality bolts seemed to be responsible for a lot of 500 clone tail failures - but most clone builders replace key parts that might be suspect. Most of the time, you replace bits to reduce vibration or make the heli fly smoother, there really aren't that many parts in danger of failing.

Any toy heli can pose a danger to the pilot and onlookers. Personally, I always try to fly in places devoid of people. That way you can also avoid all those dumb "how far will it go?" and "how much does it cost?" questions.

Since there's more kinetic energy in larger helis, there's an increasing responsibility of ownership, maintenance and flying with larger helis. The significantly higher cost of larger helis will tend to deter casual flyers, but I'm sure everyone knows someone with more money than sense. Best to point them at a big-name, blinged-out 450.....

I wholeheartedly agree on the subject of "smack" flying - it looks really dangerous to me, especially if it's being attempted by the average flyer, and it seems to be being flown way too close in.
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