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Old Oct 06, 2012, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by tigreflyer View Post
I thought a Cox glow head would fit on a Norvel .049 cylinder. Perhaps it will. Will a Cox .049 glow head fit a Norvel .061 cylinder?
Yes (see attached).

Additional comment: However, I don't know if one would run into overheating problems due to the Cox's smaller glow head fin area, having never tried it myself.
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 11:48 AM
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Cox, Norvel, and Merlin plugs, as do the Galbraith adaptor Nelson type, as well as Turbo plugs ( in their bespoke adaptors)..interchange and 'usually' :-) .. work just fine.. in any 049, 051. 061 engines.. Cox, Norvel, AME, or VA .
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 12:07 PM
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"A Norvel glow button." I see the clamp and understand its fuction. Does a standard glow plug fit into a "glow button"? Or is the platinum coil an integral part of the glow button?
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigreflyer View Post
I thought a Cox glow head would fit on a Norvel .049 cylinder. Perhaps it will. Will a Cox .049 glow head fit a Norvel .061 cylinder?
Yes, I did my first crank and break-in run on my .061 Big Mig with an .049 Bee head and 3 shims. Made it a lot easier to crank before I got a starter spring.
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigreflyer View Post
"A Norvel glow button." I see the clamp and understand its fuction. Does a standard glow plug fit into a "glow button"?
No, a few replies up, I left a link to a glow plug adapter for $4.25 from nvengines.com that allows you to use a standard glow plug. Can't tell you whether it uses a long or short standard glow plug.

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Or is the platinum coil an integral part of the glow button?
Platinum element is a part of the glow button. If it goes bad, you replace it button and all, or you install the adapter and use a regular plug.
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by RknRusty View Post
Yes, I did my first crank and break-in run on my .061 Big Mig with an .049 Bee head and 3 shims. Made it a lot easier to crank before I got a starter spring.
Norvel snap starter spring is a nice upgrade. My Big Mig .061 Revlite was shipped with 2 copper shims under the Norvel glow head assembly and it came with extra shims to boot. (I don't know if Norvel does that now.) I bought a couple extra springs along with several RC and several CL tanks sometime back.

The tanks are a nice upgrade, helping to keep fuel feed line short. About the only exception is that it makes the engine assembly extra long, which leaves one to revise the engine firewall location or leave engine sticking out further in the breeze.
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 06:40 PM
gcb
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OK...Here goes with the part I know! NORVEL was an acronym for an import company in Ohio called Northern Velocity. The gent who owned it eventually sold the import rights and stock to SIG.

A Russian company made the engines as a fill-in while other work was slow. They also produced engines or parts for other companies also.

At the time I started ordering them they had encountered trouble with the glow heads. The heads were for high-performance use and needed a good booster to lite the plug. Through redesigning the company came out with what it called the "Freedom Plug" that were more user friendly. They consumed less power and were adapted to accept glow plug "boosters" that many of us use. The glow heads and adapters are interchangeable between NORVEL and Cox so any heads that fit one fit the other.

When I ordered my first engines I ordered some Big Migs including a "Start Up". The Start Up included a clear plastic tank-mount that was set up for RC use with the pickup on the lower end. I re-bent the fill tube for CL use, but first I used it as a mount for bench-running the engines. Later tanks included a pick up for RC and a pickup for CL. Eventually they were available in both forms.

As stated the mounting holes for the Big Mig were the same as the TD, although the crankcase is just a bit wider.

I found that the piston was hard to turn over because of the close fit. I just squirted some oil in the cylinder and it would flip if you flipped it fast. After running-in the Startup engine I switched to another Big Mig in the mount. That's when I discovered that the Startup engine had a hole between the screw holes on the mounting lug to accommodate the sterter spring...the regular Big Migs did not have this hole so the rest were started by hand flipping.

BTW, these early engines were ABC or ABN, not Revlite. A Revlite is recognizeable with its larger fins. First thing you will find if you use a normal plug clamp is that the fins are not electrical conductive.

OkiThumper, what you show is an AME Zeus on a NORVEL CL tank. The plastic intake insert was optional. It is for suction use.

George
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by gcb View Post
OK...Here goes with the part I know! NORVEL was an acronym for an import company in Ohio called Northern Velocity. The gent who owned it eventually sold the import rights and stock to SIG. A Russian company made the engines as a fill-in while other work was slow. They also produced engines or parts for other companies also.
That's the history as I remember it. That Russian company AFAIK found it more lucrative to do other machining work besides model plane engines and moved on to other ventures. Then Sig lost their supplies as a result. It was then I thought the Norvel was dead and the only other option was the Chinese clone engines, sold under ASP and AP.

Quote:
At the time I started ordering them they had encountered trouble with the glow heads. The heads were for high-performance use and needed a good booster to lite the plug. Through redesigning the company came out with what it called the "Freedom Plug" that were more user friendly. They consumed less power and were adapted to accept glow plug "boosters" that many of us use. The glow heads and adapters are interchangeable between NORVEL and Cox so any heads that fit one fit the other.
That was a good feature. Estes had reliability problems and then gave up on the Cox engines. Prior to their store closing, I picked up a couple Sure Start reedies for $7.

I sensed 1/2-A's were approaching death, and somewhere prior to Estes bellying up its engine venture and Norvel going underground with Sig holding the bag, thus procured glow plug conversion heads. I also acquired a similar head for the Testors McCoy .049 engine, as these heads are getting harder to find.

Quote:
When I ordered my first engines I ordered some Big Migs including a "Start Up". The Start Up included a clear plastic tank-mount that was set up for RC use with the pickup on the lower end. I re-bent the fill tube for CL use, but first I used it as a mount for bench-running the engines. Later tanks included a pick up for RC and a pickup for CL. Eventually they were available in both forms.
I bought an .049 Start Up without throttle. It was for a 2 channel Sureflite foam plane, the Cessna 180. I also bought a Big Mig Revlite .061 R/C. I bought the R/C 1 oz. clunk tank and starter spring separately. (About the only thing I don't like about this tank is the clunk weight is not heavy enough with the silicone fuel line, to properly "clunk" so extended inverted flight is not possible.)

Quote:
As stated the mounting holes for the Big Mig were the same as the TD, although the crankcase is just a bit wider.
Also interesting is the Thunder Tiger GP-07 R/C shares the same beam mount bolt pattern. I haven't tried it myself, but if a portion of the Norvel plastic R/C tank pan is "Dremeled" out would allow clearance for the bottom radial engine mount lug on the GP-07. IIRC, the GP-07 is an underappreciated engine. The late Randy Randolph, sport flyer guru really liked it.

Quote:
I found that the piston was hard to turn over because of the close fit. I just squirted some oil in the cylinder and it would flip if you flipped it fast. After running-in the Startup engine I switched to another Big Mig in the mount. That's when I discovered that the Startup engine had a hole between the screw holes on the mounting lug to accommodate the starter spring...the regular Big Migs did not have this hole so the rest were started by hand flipping.
If one is careful, they can drill a hole to accommodate it IMO. The starter spring makes the Norvels about as easy starting as the reedies or McCoy .049.

Quote:
BTW, these early engines were ABC or ABN, not Revlite. A Revlite is recognizeable with its larger fins. First thing you will find if you use a normal plug clamp is that the fins are not electrical conductive.
That is good to know. I am reserving the Revlite for a Minnie Mambo crash rebuild. The older non-Revlite Norvel .049 C/L is a sweet running engine. I've been running it with a standard short Swanson plug and Texaco conversion head adapter. That may not be the best advice, but it runs just fine in that configuration and 6x3 / 6x4 prop for 2 channel flying.

Quote:
OkiThumper, what you show is an AME Zeus on a NORVEL CL tank. The plastic intake insert was optional. It is for suction use.
Going to a bladder tank is more complexity than I am willing to go for. That plastic insert is no longer available. I must admit though the Zeus seems to have a really nice fine thread needle. I looked at the nvengines.com site, for $22 I could get a CL venturi and needle for it. This might create expressions of horror for the died in wool speed fans, but it would help to tame the AME into what I imagine is a fine sport motor, an AME Zeus Up Start motor.
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 05:12 PM
gcb
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Originally Posted by OkiThumper View Post
...Estes had reliability problems and then gave up on the Cox engines. Prior to their store closing, I picked up a couple Sure Start reedies for $7.
I heard that Estes gave up on Cox when they made a BUNCH of Star Wars RTF's and lost a bundle due to their buyback agreement with Walmart. I still have six of the "Droid Fighters", powered by Sure Starts. I also picked up some of those $7.00 ones.

Quote:
Going to a bladder tank is more complexity than I am willing to go for. That plastic insert is no longer available.
Have you tried Carlson Engine Imports? That's where I got mine.

George
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkiThumper View Post
Going to a bladder tank is more complexity than I am willing to go for. That plastic insert is no longer available. I must admit though the Zeus seems to have a really nice fine thread needle. I looked at the nvengines.com site, for $22 I could get a CL venturi and needle for it. This might create expressions of horror for the died in wool speed fans, but it would help to tame the AME into what I imagine is a fine sport motor, an AME Zeus Up Start motor.
Did you see this how-to on making a simple bladder. I posted it last week? Everything is available from Texas Timers.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1745179
They also sell what you need for a fine thread remote NV.
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by gcb View Post
I heard that Estes gave up on Cox when they made a BUNCH of Star Wars RTF's and lost a bundle due to their buyback agreement with Walmart. I still have six of the "Droid Fighters", powered by Sure Starts. I also picked up some of those $7.00 ones.
Interesting. They had some neat looking RTF's. Problem is that IMO much of society was intolerant of these noise making "dangerous" toys. I remember back in the 1980's, seeing a rather ironic but humorous sign at a fenced school yard in Long Beach, CA. It said something like, "NO RUNNING, NO BICYCLE RIDING, NO BALL PLAYING, NO SKATE BOARDING, NO MODEL AIRPLANE FLYING, NO R/C CARS, HAVE FUN." I wish I had a picture of that. For consolation though, I bought 2 Cox balsa kits, an X-Wing fighter and Y-Wing fighter. I thought those to be innovative, picked them up at half price in a hobby shop some 10 years ago near a training location for work, can't remember where.

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Have you tried Carlson Engine Imports? That's where I got mine.
I went to Bob's site, but he hasn't much displayed (rebuilding his website). That's a good option though, might give him a call, thanks.
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by RknRusty View Post
Did you see this how-to on making a simple bladder. I posted it last week? Everything is available from Texas Timers.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1745179
They also sell what you need for a fine thread remote NV.
Thanks for the links and fine work videoing. I downloaded those for later viewing.
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 06:40 PM
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"That's the history as I remember it. That Russian company AFAIK found it more lucrative to do other machining work besides model plane engines and moved on to other ventures. Then Sig lost their supplies as a result. It was then I thought the Norvel was dead and the only other option was the Chinese clone engines, sold under ASP and AP".


Government subsidized factory. Went back to making war toy parts for the next great unpleasantness now on the horizon
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 01:41 PM
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Government subsidized factory. Went back to making war toy parts for the next great unpleasantness now on the horizon
Such as?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN5PAwc1ns8
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