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Old Dec 22, 2005, 09:25 AM
Checking CG is for NERDS!
Smokescreen38's Avatar
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The Iron Cross on the Slow Stick: has it ever upset anyone?

A few months back, I was approached by an older fella in the park who said: "Nice airplane but why did you have to put those emblems on it?! I HATE those emblems!!!" Or something to that affect. I was caught off guard by this and tried to explain that it wasn't a Nazi symbol... but honestly, I didnt know that much about it and I dont exactly know why it was on the SS to begin with.

I put them on there because I thought they looked great and that the SS made me think of a WWI era monoplane...and thats just how the Slow Stick was supposed to look.

Obviously the iron cross is not the same thing as the swastika and it has been adopted by other groups in recent times.. but variations of it were used by the Nazis.

Have you avoided putting them on because of the association? Have you ever been approached about it? Why are they really on the Slow Stick to begin with?
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Old Dec 22, 2005, 09:34 AM
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Bonez's Avatar
Moorpark, CA
Joined Oct 2002
565 Posts
Tell the guy to get a life. It also rubs me the wrong way when I see an older Formula 1 model be released without the original tobacco sponsor decals. As if removing them will keep someone from smoking!

Merry Christmas (another PC incorrect statement...)
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Old Dec 22, 2005, 09:58 AM
Checking CG is for NERDS!
Smokescreen38's Avatar
Joined Jun 2005
5,347 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonez
Tell the guy to get a life. It also rubs me the wrong way when I see an older Formula 1 model be released without the original tobacco sponsor decals. As if removing them will keep someone from smoking!

Merry Christmas (another PC incorrect statement...)
Well there are two sides to the issue here. I agree with you... but to a point. In the case of a model that is supposed to be historically accurate, its a bad idea to pretend it never happened. If you are building a model of a ME 109, it ought to have the correct emblems as should a tobacco sponsored race car.... but I can see where you would want to avoid spreading a message that is universally evil- like the swastika where its not necessary-- like wearing it on a T-Shirt.. or perhaps on the wing of a non-historical RC plane

I would really like to hear what people have to say about this and I dont want to derail the discussion, but I am sick of people whining about not being able to say "merry Christmas." The people who say "hapy hollidays" instead are just covering their own butts so they don't look ignorant. Wishing someone a good holiday that they dont celebrate makes you look like a tool. It makes you look like you dont understand that the world is bigger than your own culture. IMO, you should say it if you feel like its a good idea... but understand how it makes you look in the eyes of others. If you dont care what others think... why are you wishing them a Merry Christmas to begin with?
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Old Dec 22, 2005, 10:21 AM
aka RAMTech-RC
Chandler, AZ
Joined Aug 2005
516 Posts
Tell him to go home and watch some MTV. The Iron Cross has become a symbol of today's youth and excess, not a Nazi symbol. Both are completely different symblos by the way.

Merry Christmas and have a Happy New Year.
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Old Dec 22, 2005, 10:27 AM
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VACaver's Avatar
Usually underground in Virginia
Joined Oct 2004
395 Posts
Sounds like he's yet ANOTHER person who thinks it's your job in life not to offend them.
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Old Dec 22, 2005, 10:31 AM
ooops
StCalvin's Avatar
Dekalb,Illinois
Joined Oct 2003
1,452 Posts
The original Maltese cross was a religious symbol. Check paintings of Christopher Columbus' ships. Also English nobles used it during the crusades.

Kaiser Wilhelm adopted it during WW1 as a symbol of bravery.

I wouldnt waste time worrying about it. There are still some old vets who only see one thing. Time will eradicate that.

As a kid in the 60's we called it a surfer's cross. It's been used by many cultures since it's early days.
R
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Old Dec 22, 2005, 10:37 AM
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m00se's Avatar
Litchfield Park, AZ
Joined Feb 2005
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Anything you do or say will offend _someone_. That older fella's personal problem with the iron cross is just that... his personal problem. Let it go.
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Old Dec 22, 2005, 10:37 AM
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Montgomery, IL
Joined Aug 2005
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This subject matter can lead to a can of worms if were not carefull, but I find it rather entertaining that these days we seem to be tolerent of everything yet nobody can voice an opinion about anything without stepping on peoples toes or offending them and everyone takes everything so serious, heck the only two groups that one can openly air complaints or opinions about without backlash are smokers and christians. lol.

So happy holidays because I don't wish to offend you.. I was going to say Merry Ch$#@## but that wouldn't be PR..
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Old Dec 22, 2005, 10:49 AM
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Ramones, The's Avatar
United States, NY
Joined Nov 2005
180 Posts
It's an identification mark like the USA stars and Bars...



Here's info on the Iron Cross

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Cross
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Old Dec 22, 2005, 10:56 AM
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lowdive's Avatar
anaheim, ca
Joined Apr 2005
2,542 Posts
also consider the fact that the swastika wasn't originally used by the nazi party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

"The swastika is a holy symbol in Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism. In the West, it is more widely known as symbol of Nazism."


it all depends on what you want to obsess about, i guess.
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Old Dec 22, 2005, 10:56 AM
Mike Campbell
Guthrie, Oklahoma
Joined Mar 2004
42 Posts
Just a side note, the Japanese "Meatball" is a target to be shot down by veterans of the Pacific theater.
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Old Dec 22, 2005, 11:19 AM
Modeller Dilettante
Vancouver
Joined Sep 2005
422 Posts
The Iron Cross is a symbol of Germany, not the Nazis. Originally, it was used by the Kingdom of Prussia as a symbol and military decoration, borrowed from emblems of the Teutonic Knights (a roughly Prussian medieval order). Since Prussia was the German state that was instrumental in unifying Germany in the late 19th century, the Iron Cross became a symbol of the Kaiser's Germany.
The Nazis simply used it on their emblems because they were German and wanted to appeal to nationalist sentiments of Germans. It reminded Germans of pre-Weimar times, when Germany was a powerful, independent nation.

My point is, I'm not sure why someone would be sensitive about the Iron Cross. It was a national symbol, it just happens to be one for a nation that Americans were at war with, and one that the Nazis were in charge of for a few decades. If that's enough to get someone's gander up, then I imagine anything associated with Germany (or Japan for that matter) would do the same. The eagle also was a symbol of Germany that the Nazis used a lot, but nobody seems too concerned about it (perhaps because the eagle is also a symbol of America?).

I'm cool with the Iron Cross, but must admit, Swastikas (even in scale settings) make me quite uncomfortable, since they are a direct symbol of the Nazi party and philosophy. That doesn't mean I complain when I see them on a (historically modelled) plane though.
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Old Dec 22, 2005, 11:28 AM
Modeller Dilettante
Vancouver
Joined Sep 2005
422 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokescreen38
Why are they really on the Slow Stick to begin with?
I think they are on Slow Sticks because the Slow Stick is a slowflyer take on a popular R/C design of the 60s, the Das Ugly Stick by Phil Kraft. That model was meant to be an easy to build sport flyer with a vaguely Eindecker look, and it included a Red Baron colour scheme with Iron Crosses for that effect.
I think that's the reason, anyway.
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Old Dec 22, 2005, 11:31 AM
You sabotaged my plane.
eliworm's Avatar
Arizona
Joined Jun 2002
2,848 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokescreen38
Why are they really on the Slow Stick to begin with?
The original Ugly Sticks way back when were red and had the iron cross on it to resemble a WW1 aircraft. (or I should say aeroplane) Everyone has copied it over the years with thier stick clones and the SS is no exeption.

Jim
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Old Dec 22, 2005, 11:38 AM
Mike
Radiobum's Avatar
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Joined Nov 2004
540 Posts
Don't worry about it. It's your plane. If it ever happens to me I'll tell em "I will be happy to destroy this offensive symbol for the small sum of $500" "I built it and I paid for it. If you want to pay for it I'll do it your way" " by the way, your opinion is worth exactly what I paid for it, nothing"

I am sick and tired of people who want to force their opinions down my throat and call themself compasionate liberals. They are intolerant of anything they don't agree. And now they want to tell you how to paint a model airplane. That is so ridiculously insignificant. That fellow must have nothing else to do. He needs a life.

Think I'll build a Confederate, Nazi, KKK, Black Panther, witchcraft, Hindu, Iraq, Islam, Russian, North Vietnam, meatball, jewish, Christian, Republican off road SUV garbage truck, Just to hack everybody off.
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