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Old Feb 02, 2013, 04:10 PM
Team30 Micro EDF
NitroCharged's Avatar
Adelaide, Australia
Joined Apr 2004
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Joel is saying crank up the load higher and higher and see at what point it poops itself.
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 04:27 PM
Kit Manufacturer
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United States, MA, Southbridge
Joined Feb 2010
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Originally Posted by NitroCharged View Post
Joel is saying crank up the load higher and higher and see at what point it poops itself.
My plan is to add load with larger props and try to avoid releasing the magic blue smoke in the 1S configuration
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 04:43 PM
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United States, TN, Jackson
Joined Mar 2007
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Originally Posted by coreman View Post
My plan is to add load with larger props and try to avoid releasing the magic blue smoke in the 1S configuration
This would be really good for most single engine planes---But planes like the Mossie have a very limited prop arc area...With the stock 3 blade prop there's only about 1/8"/3mm between the prop tip and the fuselage...

Good luck with your tests and THANKS!!!

Kevin
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 04:51 PM
Master of Micro Modding
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Australia, SA, Burra
Joined Sep 2011
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Originally Posted by Kevin Greene View Post
Fellas---DON'T GIVE UP YET!!!!.......This is EXACTLY what I was thinking!!!...Think about this----Limit the endpoint on the throttle so that you get about 8000 rpm at full throttle on 2S...This would be a tad more than 1000 rpm over the stock brushed motor...I would think that the stock gearbox should be able to handle the extra 1000rpm...Also, the heat would be lower...This would give you more power than a Bravo motor but not so insane as to break or melt the gearbox...

Since you have some head room with the throttle---Now, how about this thrown in for grins and giggles...Do a throttle to throttle mix...Program the throttle endpoint in the mix so that you gain about 200rpm over the set endpoint that you already have...Assign the mix to the trainer switch button/lever...When you hit the trainer switch you go into "Military Power" for a very brief burst of extra power!!!...Since the mix is on the trainer switch, when you release the switch the motor immediately goes back to normal...

Howz that for a little get go to your giddyup!!!......

Kevin
Hehe! that does sound pretty cool, like a shot of nitrous I've got a 4030 prop on the way for 2s, so I'll try to reduce the throttle in the travel adjust settings, then setup the throttle mixing on the trainer. I'll put the motor on my thrust tester and limit it to say 70g of thrust, then I should be able to fly 3D with my scratch build muzzy.
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 04:54 PM
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United States, MA, Southbridge
Joined Feb 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Greene View Post
This would be really good for most single engine planes---But planes like the Mossie have a very limited prop arc area...With the stock 3 blade prop there's only about 1/8"/3mm between the prop tip and the fuselage...

Good luck with your tests and THANKS!!!

Kevin
yeah, as I stated earlier, my intent is for use in the Polecat, 4-Site and possibly the Spitfire
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by MUTCAKE View Post
I think this is why HH originally went with the 8.4mm brushed motor in the first place. It was and still is the best choice for these planes without adding the weight of bl esc and larger batteries
HH has no excuse! Disregarding BL there are better brushed motors to be had out there that out perform the current stock setup. Take the Bravo SX motor for example, it reportedly makes 25-30% more static thrust than the stock motor, and it even fits in the gearbox.
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 05:03 PM
Heli's rule!
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Midvale, Utah, USA
Joined Mar 2005
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Originally Posted by coreman View Post
My plan is to add load with larger props and try to avoid releasing the magic blue smoke in the 1S configuration
dont just go bigger either, try same diameter larger pitch and see what happens. larger diameter will help with thrust, but not with speed.... if you make a ton of thrust, but barly enough pitch speed to fly, you are no better off...

Quote:
Originally Posted by miatamama View Post
Have any of you actually tried the APO5 5000kv motors?? I have and Im saying they would have too much thrust for any of the brushed PZ planes. You would fold the wings at wot. I compared my original Beast motor with the apo5 5000kv.
The beast on 2 cell 180 batt = 72g Thrust
The APO5 on 1cell 300 batt = 71g Thrust.

JCS
You are talking about a direct drive outrunner, this thread is dealing with geard inrunners. An ourunner would be no problem at all with respect to performance, the problem is mounting it. the goal here is to have a drop in solution.
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 05:04 PM
BMFA 190658
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United Kingdom, Yeadon
Joined Mar 2007
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I might try hopping up my Mosquito.
Only got one brushless motor though, any idea what Throttle-Rudder mix I might need to keep her on course


Tony
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 05:16 PM
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United States, MA, Southbridge
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Originally Posted by dacaur View Post
dont just go bigger either, try same diameter larger pitch and see what happens. larger diameter will help with thrust, but not with speed.... if you make a ton of thrust, but barly enough pitch speed to fly, you are no better off...
I'm running in place as fast as I can! yeah, i was planning on going up in pitch as well as trying larger diameters. I have a good selection of props I have bought from all the direct drive testing and micro 2S testing I have done. The other thing people need to keep in mind is the need for a good battery. You need to be able to supply the demanded current. The new 25C 150mah battery is good. The Mini Aviation 190mah are good, the 300mah MCPx batteries I have are another place. if you go to the Bravo SX upgrade you also need to go with the better batteries. I suspect this will be similar.
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 05:25 PM
Master of Micro Modding
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Australia, SA, Burra
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Originally Posted by coreman View Post
I'm running in place as fast as I can! yeah, i was planning on going up in pitch as well as trying larger diameters. I have a good selection of props I have bought from all the direct drive testing and micro 2S testing I have done. The other thing people need to keep in mind is the need for a good battery. You need to be able to supply the demanded current. The new 25C 150mah battery is good. The Mini Aviation 190mah are good, the 300mah MCPx batteries I have are another place. if you go to the Bravo SX upgrade you also need to go with the better batteries. I suspect this will be similar.
If anyone here is using the stock 150mah lipos, even the 25c ones, you're a fool. I use 260mah 35-70c 1s nanotechs which have been decased and weigh 6.5g (I could get them lighter but I like a bit of length to my cables). Not only is the performance better but I get 15min+ run times in my otherwise stockish Mustang.
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 05:34 PM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
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East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
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Originally Posted by NitroCharged View Post
Joel is saying crank up the load higher and higher and see at what point it poops itself.
LOL! Well, not quite. I was proposing that one would stop the test at the point where the temp starts to go up rapidly, or at the point where the RPM starts to sag excessively - whichever comes first. That would provide a reasonable estimate of the motor's useable output on 1s without having to destroy one in the process. Knowing the useable output makes the decision easy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by valiantGLX View Post
If anyone here is using the stock 150mah lipos, even the 25c ones, you're a fool. I use 260mah 35-70c 1s nanotechs which have been decased and weigh 6.5g (I could get them lighter but I like a bit of length to my cables). Not only is the performance better but I get 15min+ run times in my otherwise stockish Mustang.
I did a fair amount of UM battery testing back in the day. Because of that, I've been flying my 1s planes with Hyperion 180 & 240 mAh flatpack cells for a number of years. My Sukhoi XP has essentially unlimited vertical (will climb vertically until it is too small to see) on the stock motor with a 5043 prop & a Hyp 180 or 240.

Joel
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 05:52 PM
miataman
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Erie Pa.
Joined Oct 2007
690 Posts
Decur, What you are getting from this thread is entirely different than what I am reading Ultimate 1cell brushless. Yes it would be great to put 2 wraps of tape on ther motor and shove it in our gearboxes and have instant power but that is not the case so far. I am just stating that for me the ultimate 1 cell brushless has been found. The motor I am talking about weighs exactly the same as the 8.5 mm brushless. It doesnot need a motormount it is part of the motor so subtract the weight of the gearbox and cancel out the weight of the esc. It is a wash, same weight plane. Most Guys are using bigger bats or 2cell now so 300 1cell extra batt weight is a wash. This post is what the title suggests only different motor.

Speedy, I am not at all a techy, just retired on a very limited budget and experiment a lot with as cheap as I can find. You only have to purchase the motor and esc from MicroAces, It comes wired for plug and play for the 6400 rx. I bought one setup to prove if this would work for me and it is exceptional but the motor esc and some great prop adapters came to 52 bucks. It worked so well that I needed another ( I was standardising my fleet to 5g hk and 2cell 180 batts) so I ordered another from HK 3ith the 3amp esc,that is working as good as the 7a so far. Changed it from 3000 to 5000 kvand it runs equally as well as the factory one. You only need to know how to solder. You have to isolate 3 wires and lengthen them. Then meter the wires to see which ones are paired and rearrange the pairs for delta. You can hardly tell it has been modded.
If you want to try it, PM me and I will help you. I started into foamys winding cd rom motors and building everything on the scratchbuilt foamy forum

I have tried the solo motors SX motors 120 heli tail motor and the different 8.5 motors HK sells and the mustang, foresite ect. are as good Just dont last as long.
If these brushless hold up I will be way ahead of the game.

Also did I say they were silent. you can see the plane flying but cant hear it.

Believe or not just as I see it .

JCS
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 06:43 PM
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Gulf Breeze, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miatamama View Post
Then meter the wires to see which ones are paired and rearrange the pairs for delta.
You lost me at Delta, but I did some Googling after seeing Todd's diagram ... and will drop you a PM so as not to clutter this thread. I have an APo5 and 3A ESC on hand.

Thanks much for the offer to help!

Gene K
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 06:56 PM
Master of Micro Modding
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Australia, SA, Burra
Joined Sep 2011
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2s fail!

I just ran a 2s thrust test, here's how it went:

mCPX BL tail motor in a UM gearbox on 2s FAIL!!! (1 min 5 sec)


My conclusion: This motor and gearbox combo is a dud whether on 1s or 2s It makes about 60g of thrust on 2s with a UM eflite 2 blade prop but the motor cant sustain it. It gets incredibly hot quickly even at around half throttle

My advice: If you have some on order cancel it asap, if they are already on the way try to return them or leave them in the package and flog them off on ebay. Even with 1s you'll need an abnormally large prop to make the same if not less thrust than the stock motor by the sounds of things.
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 06:58 PM
Master of Micro Modding
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Australia, SA, Burra
Joined Sep 2011
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miatamama & speedy,

Please share the winding info, its not deviating off topic, this thread is all about the ultimate 1s BL setup after all
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