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Old Jun 20, 2012, 10:08 PM
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If you were the CD what would you do?

I'm new to the CD role and had the following situation:
call to launch verify every one is ready.
Start the 10 sec launch window and one of the contestants motor will not start. All the other pilots are in the air, the 10 sec launch window expires then he discovers that his cam unit had become disconnected.
I gave him a zero for the round and did not permit a refilght.

Is this the correct desicion? or should he have been allowed to have a refilght?
If you give him a reflight do you call everyone else in to land and refly with the same flight group? Place him in the next flight group? or let him fly solo and compare his time to those in his orginal flight group?
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Old Jun 20, 2012, 10:18 PM
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While the 0 is a fair call as he didnt fly in his originally scheduled slot due to his own error, I would probably let him refly in another flight group.
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 02:04 AM
MrE
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We tend to be pretty relaxed in our club contests, so I would have just let him start late as long as it was only a few seconds or maybe even up to a minute. If it took longer to get resolved and he wanted to do it, I would let him do a re-flight at some point.

If it was a larger contest or a regional event or something like that, then I would be more strict with the rules.
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 08:13 AM
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Maryland
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It depends on how informal the contest was. If it was a low turn out contest then maybe I'd let him fly in another group. Rules are rules for a reason. If you bend a rule for one person then you are at risk of a flood of "well you let him do..." Never break a rule for one person and not everyone else!
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 09:41 AM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
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You need to cover that at the pilot's meeting.
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 10:12 AM
AMA7224 LSF1832
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United States, DE, Seaford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rc4fun View Post
It depends on how informal the contest was. If it was a low turn out contest then maybe I'd let him fly in another group. Rules are rules for a reason. If you bend a rule for one person then you are at risk of a flood of "well you let him do..." Never break a rule for one person and not everyone else!
Couldn't have said it better. Other than flying well, open contests are also about having your equipment up to snuff and in fine fettle. Motor won't work, ESC smokes itself into oblivion, servo goes wobbly and so on. It's part of contest flying, we've all been there.

I'll add that I did just what you asked about when CD'ing an old timer contest to shut this one guy up who went on and on yammering wanting a reflight. Big mistake!!! I wound up having to address a protest before it was done then had to backpedal over myself and disqualify the guy's flight anyhow. In the end, no one was really happy and a number were really POed. It's your call as CD but I wouldn't do it.
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 04:03 PM
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United States, CA, Folsom
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This is one of the tough ones for any CD. I've been a CD since 1981 and have faced tough decisions maybe 5 or 6 times in that time. My guiding tenets are:

1. Adhere to the published rules whenever possible
2. Safety will never be compromised
3. Many contestants travel (sometimes a significant distance) to participate/support non-local contests. These persons are the customers and deserve consideration.

That said, I will allow someone with a legitimate problem to fit into a later flight group if at all possible. This type of decision is on a case by case basis, and should not upset the competitive results of the contest (assume MOM scoring). This is generally my preferred solution with the contest decided in the air, not on a rules-based stroke of bad luck. (FWIW this is what is practiced at the AMA-LSF Nats whenever practical, we want people flying and happy to be there.)

If I sense/know that someone is gaming the system I may be more inclined to follow the letter of the rules, but this too is on a case by case basis. I'm willing to entertain a protest if a stickler wants to get anal about "me vs. him".

Bottom line, this is a hobby/pastime and should be enjoyable. Making overly severe decisions where a little compassion/leniency will do doesn't fit as well into that concept.

If you want no compromise, stick to the rules at all costs type experiences, get into FAI competition. You'll be right at home in the race to push the rules to the very limit.

JT
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 09:41 PM
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Having a pilot fly with another flight group gets them in the air, but the scoring system I use will still rank them in their original pre-determined flight group. If lift is changing dramatically it could be an advantage or a disadvantage but we might have one occurrence of a mis-start in an early round every other contest so we error on the side of more flying is more better.

With this being our first full year of ALES we are probably more lenient especially with so many new pilots joining in and our wanting them to have a positive experience. We will hold the countdown if someone is a bit late and we also try to reserve the closer landing tapes for pilots who are less mobile and for contest staff. This saves everyone from waiting for a pilot to walk nearly the length of a football field.
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 11:59 PM
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Appreciate all the replies. lots of wisdom and insight.

This was our clubs second ALES contest. the pilot involved is a good friend and top notch pilot with lots of contest experience. He and another one of our club members are always very competitve but in a good way. So I was alot tougher on this guy than I would have been on someone with less experience or who had come from out of town. I was suprised by the situation and had not thought it through before hand so made the call that I did.

I think I will try to avoid this in the future by reminding every one to test their motor and wiggle the sticks prior to starting the 10 sec launch window. That way any unforeseen electrical or mechanical problems that are simple fixes, say in a 2-5 min window, can be corrected before the flight group launchs.
longer fixes , will move the pilot to the next flight group.

Flying and fun are what I want our ALES contests to be about.

Any other tricky or unusual situations that you guys have seen in your contests ? How did the CD handle the situaiton?

AS a new CD I want to learn from the experience of others. So all may have a good time and want to fly in a contest again.
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 12:10 AM
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One more question.

IF you let the pilot fly with the next flight group and you are flying MOM, do you compare his flight time to the group that he flies with or with the pilots that flew in the group he was orginally assigned to?
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 05:22 AM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
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You can't score him with the previous round... you must score him with the people he is flying with.

Also, this is not a fun fly... it is a contest.
If you have trouble with your equipment and can't fix it in time, too bad. Chalk it up to experience and get your act together better for the next time.

Ever notice that those who consistently win, never have trouble?
Proper preparation is part of the deal.
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 07:17 AM
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I'll relate the one somewhat amusing situation I faced where the proper decision was a no brainer.

During the first day of a 2-day event, one older gentleman came to pick up his TX/time card for a round just after the lunch break and had an open beer with him. The person handing out the TX's told him he couldn't have an open beer on the flight line. So what did the gent do, he downed the remainder of the beer on the spot.

TX person called me aside immediately, related what happened. I instantly DQ'd the drinker based on the AMA safety code. He took the news gracefully, though about 2 minutes later his friend/timer came storming up screaming bloody murder, how could I DQ this guy, etc. Amazing that the offender understood, yet the other idiot just didn't get it.

JT
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Sharp View Post
......

Also, this is not a fun fly... it is a contest.
If you have trouble with your equipment and can't fix it in time, too bad. Chalk it up to experience and get your act together better for the next time.
Ever notice that those who consistently win, never have trouble?
Proper preparation is part of the deal.
I'm with Kenny on this. I would never ask for any sort of special consideration due to my own fault or equipment. Maybe it's from 40 some years of flying contest or all sorts that I think the same way. It might sound hard nosed but it isn't really, it's just the way it is in my book.

Only way around something like this that i can come up with is to have a throwaway round or a best 3 out of 5 type thing. It's not a normal sailplane format but it does get used in other types of contest.
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Old Jun 23, 2012, 02:47 PM
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Interesting thread, as I am a CD. One other question. In most competitive events, no practice is allowed on the day of the competition.In model a/c events it should be assumed that all contestants arrive at the field with their model Ready to compete. That means READY. We had one contestant request permission to do a practice flight. What he needed to practice I have no idea?The problem to giving a guy permission to do this , is, where do you draw the line. Some guy arrives 5 min before pilot briefing ,sees a model in the air and demands the same practice time. I am of the opinion that there should be no "practice' flying allowed at all on the competition days. Ken G.
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Old Jun 23, 2012, 07:08 PM
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patagonia,az
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knormang View Post
Interesting thread, as I am a CD. One other question. In most competitive events, no practice is allowed on the day of the competition.In model a/c events it should be assumed that all contestants arrive at the field with their model Ready to compete. That means READY. We had one contestant request permission to do a practice flight. What he needed to practice I have no idea?The problem to giving a guy permission to do this , is, where do you draw the line. Some guy arrives 5 min before pilot briefing ,sees a model in the air and demands the same practice time. I am of the opinion that there should be no "practice' flying allowed at all on the competition days. Ken G.

I think it's ok to allow practice till the pilots' meeting.

If you have a PA system you can keep all the pilots up to date with what's happening and how much time they have to practice.

And definitely fly to the allocated rounds. I'm with Kenny on this one. Part of the contest is being ready at the right time to fly.

Philip
F5J / ALES / F3K organiser and pilot
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