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Old Aug 22, 2014, 07:40 AM
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PZ0420 600TVL board camera 5v vs 12v confustion

Are there two different voltage versions of the super HAD 600TVL board cam???

I'm looking for my first CCD camera for an FPV backpack.

I've so far settled on the PZ0420 600TVL type cam, probably the RunCam version.

Most models I see on eBay list a DC "9V-12V" Power input requirement.

But some, including some listed on surveilzone dot com for instance, list DC "5v-15v". Like this listing

Are there more than one voltage type PZ0420 cam, or are the "5v-15v" listings erroneous?

Also, is this generally the best FPV flight cam, or should I consider others like the FatShark 600VTL CMOS or the Super HAD 650TVL?

Thanks in advance,

A. Newb
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Old Aug 22, 2014, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Daxophone View Post
Are there two different voltage versions of the super HAD 600TVL board cam???

I'm looking for my first CCD camera for an FPV backpack.

I've so far settled on the PZ0420 600TVL type cam, probably the RunCam version.

Most models I see on eBay list a DC "9V-12V" Power input requirement.

But some, including some listed on surveilzone dot com for instance, list DC "5v-15v". Like this listing

Are there more than one voltage type PZ0420 cam, or are the "5v-15v" listings erroneous?
surveilzone has made the majority of the newer cameras they are targeting the FPV scene with to have a decent range of voltage inputs to allow us to run from 5-15V, this means it does not matter which voltage you have to use for your vTX you can still run the camera with the same power supply. The "PZ0420" bit is just the sensor (Super HAD II in this case), most of the major manufacturers buy the sensors then put them on their own board layout which have 95% of the same components no matter where who you buy the camera from, surveilzone has just gone the extra step and put a power regulator on board with a wider input range.

Just be aware that the smaller 25mmx25mm form factor cameras generally don't have the ability to flip the image so make sure you check which way is up before installing (generally the cord is the bottom of the image on these). This is not an issues except when you want to tilt the camera up say on your mini multirotor as the cord then gets in the road.....

Quote:
Also, is this generally the best FPV flight cam, or should I consider others like the FatShark 600VTL CMOS or the Super HAD 650TVL?

Thanks in advance,

A. Newb
So you cameras basically go in this order from best to worst

Pixim - has a larger board size than every other camera making it not fit in many situations

Effio-V - nearly as good as the Pixim but has a smaller board size and a cheaper price, it does produce a small amount of UHF noise if you are no using the metal case.

Super HAD II - this is what is being used in most of the pz0420 based cameras, they are a good sensor at a cheap price, they don't even come close to a Effio-V let alone Pixim but the work well and you can get them in a really small form factor.

CMOS - I personally say "stay clear" if you can from these sensors, they are typically terrible cameras that suffer from vibrations and suffer even more from any sudden changes in brightness. These sensors are the cheapest to make and most decent camera suppliers sell them for less than $20, these are what the fatshark camera range is...
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Old Aug 23, 2014, 03:13 AM
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"...don't even come close to... is debatable, abandoned years ago Pixim in favor of PZ.

Pixim too noisy in low light and too big for my purposes. And Pixim is CMOS if you didn't know already A smarter CMOS than the last position in your list, but still CMOS...
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Old Aug 23, 2014, 03:22 AM
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"...don't even come close to... is debatable, abandoned years ago Pixim in favor of PZ.
2nd what he said!

/Dimitris
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Old Aug 23, 2014, 09:20 AM
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Thanks guys, Redemptioner.

That thing about the 25x25 cams generally not having image flipping sounds like a real bummer to me. Hmmm going to have hold off 'til I figure that out possibly.

What exactly is meant by "the cord then gets in the road..." Btw?

Is it preferable to get the IR blocked version and then take off the filter whenever needed? How about lens size, is 2.1mm preferable for fpv flying?
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Old Aug 23, 2014, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Daxophone View Post
Thanks guys, Redemptioner.

That thing about the 25x25 cams generally not having image flipping sounds like a real bummer to me. Hmmm going to have hold off 'til I figure that out possibly.

What exactly is meant by "the cord then gets in the road..." Btw?

Is it preferable to get the IR blocked version and then take off the filter whenever needed? How about lens size, is 2.1mm preferable for fpv flying?
Just saw this thread and figured I would chime in What he meant by the cord getting in the road was that when you tilt the camera up on its mounting bracket, the cord that is plugged in near the bottom gets caught between the bracket and the bottom of the camera. This almost acts like a stopper thus limiting the amount you are able to tilt the camera up.

I really would recommend the IR Block, It is a must have for flying on those sunny days! You can fly into direct sunlight while still being able to see the ground around it (Doesn't just black everything out). WDR is also very nice.

I would say 2.8mm is preferable for FPV although this is only an opinion. I feel the 2.8mm is the perfect match between quality and depth perception, I'm sure many others would agree.

Hope this helps,
Jake
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Old Aug 23, 2014, 02:33 PM
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what's the buzz about "not having image flipping" ?
Is it so difficult to mount camera in any position ?
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Old Aug 23, 2014, 05:09 PM
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what's the buzz about "not having image flipping" ?
Is it so difficult to mount camera in any position ?
Exactly
It's two ruddy screws to mount the camera either way up in it's bracket, Hell, you wouldn't even have to unplug the cables

As for the Pixim/Effio-V debate...
In case you guys didn't know, Sony bought up Pixim and closed down production of the Seawolf chip, soon enough they will run out of stock of the chips
In my opinion the Effio-V is superior performance anyway but it does have UHF issues especially the bare uncased version
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Old Aug 23, 2014, 08:15 PM
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Thanks. Ordered the 25x25 Super HAD 5-15v with (hopefully removable) IR filter. I understand video quality can be highly subjective, the HAD II CCD just seems like a good bet.
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Old Aug 23, 2014, 08:23 PM
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Exactly
It's two ruddy screws to mount the camera either way up in it's bracket, Hell, you wouldn't even have to unplug the cables
Well if you flipped the camera to reposition the cable, wouldn't you see an upside down imagine in your goggles-fpv monitor? Regardless I don't imagine the cable position being much of a problem as I don't foresee wanting to angle the cam upward.
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Old Aug 26, 2014, 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted by renatoa View Post
what's the buzz about "not having image flipping" ?
Is it so difficult to mount camera in any position ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogdude View Post
Exactly
It's two ruddy screws to mount the camera either way up in it's bracket, Hell, you wouldn't even have to unplug the cables
Then I take it you have not had to mount many cameras in many different positions?

Build a tidy mini quad and you will no what I am talking about..... the cable gets in the road when you want to tilt the camera up.
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Old Aug 26, 2014, 02:13 AM
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I wouldn't, the 250 mania is a bad design movement, imo.

Still can't figure what you mean with cables in the road... I do my own components placement on the platform, to suit the movements I foreseen, if others have cable issues, is not camera fault, but wrong layout that limit movements.

Not the last, why would I want to tilt up ? To see the sky ?
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Old Aug 26, 2014, 02:22 AM
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Pixim is CMOS if you didn't know already A smarter CMOS than the last position in your list, but still CMOS...
Well technically it is "like" a CMOS but it certainly is not CMOS, it is DPS and although it still uses a photodiode it uses a different type and handles the signal in a completely different way. If you can swallow their marketing then you can have an basic understanding why they are so good, the statement goes something like "it's like having an individual camera for every pixel" , I personally think that is a rather BS overstatement but if you look at the technology behind it (the multilayer sensor taking 8 readings for every signal output, the immediate digitalisation of the signal output etc etc) then you can can kinda understand where that statement is coming from.....kinda.

I am no camera expert but the number of Pixim's I have used they certainly out do any other camera you can get for use in daylight (not had much call for them of a night but they certainly work fine of a late afternoon), but in they are pointless for many builds as they are simply too larger form factor to fit anything, hence why I would recommend using the Effio-V as there is very little difference in performance. Suffice to say a PZ does not even come close to either the Effio-V or Pixim, they are fine for most FPV application but just are not as clear nor do they handle shading or sudden light changes nearly as well as the top cameras, and considering the price of a Effio-V, unless you are building a mini-multi (or something similar) where size is an issue then you are better off paying a little more for the Effio-V .
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Old Aug 26, 2014, 02:28 AM
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It's how helicopters work (single rotor and multirotors). To move forward, you lean the quad forward, the faster you want to go, the more you need to lean. To maintain control, you can only lean as far as you can see the horizon. For those with narrow lenses, this means you can barely move at all, so we use wide lenses to be able to lean forward as much as 40 degrees and apply full throttle in short bursts to get up to speed. For mini quads, where they're pretty much going full speed all the time, you spend much of the flight looking at the ground so you need to tilt the camera up to actually see where you're going. Not much use having a wide angle lens if 3/4 of it is looking at dirt.
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Old Aug 26, 2014, 02:36 AM
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Well technically it is "like" a CMOS but it certainly is not CMOS, it is DPS and although it still uses a photodiode it uses a different type and handles the signal in a completely different way.
Not really. Its just a cmos sensor. A good one perhaps, but cmos none the less. The point here is that cmos isnt bad by definition. cmos is easier to implement, and usually, cheaper (no ADC necessary etc), that why cheap camera's typically use it. But the opposite isnt true, the technology isnt limited to bad implementations. Red camera's also use CMOS. while not suitable for FPV, they are hardly crap
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