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Old Sep 05, 2014, 11:08 AM
"...certainty is absurd."
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Climb results with a Hyperion HS2221-3000 and Ammo 4.3:1 gearbox

Some climb results on the Hyperion HS2221-3000 with the 4.3:1 Ammo gearbox in a 4m short tail Maxa. I've misplaced my static wattage results, so I'll re-run those today.

The batteries were 1000mAh, 4S, 45C, 122g Nanotech and 1300mAh, 3S, 45C, 122g Nanotech. The all-up weight was about 1830g with this set-up. I hope to get down to about 1750g with a Thunderpower 850mAh 3S, 75g pack that will allow me to remove the tail weight I had to add as well.

I also want to try a 13x6.5" prop on 4s, and 14x9" on 3S.

The climb rate with all three combinations I tried so far is acceptable to me, and should be well within the maximum for the motor (600W). The 16x8" HobbyKing carbon on 3S had the best performance at about 10m/sec (eCalc predicts 450W static, 2730g thrust). The 12x6" Graupner CAM was about 8m/sec on 4s (eCalc shows 453W, 2188g thrust). The 12x8" HK carbon was about 8.5m/sec on 4S (eCalc 475W, 2660g thrust static).

Not bad for a $70 gear motor combination.

These were about max rate climbs, at very roughly a 30 degree angle. Normally I would climb at a shallower angle to range out more and test the air. Well, normally I rarely climb to even 150m any more. I like to practice F5J, and shut off as low as dare.

Kevin
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Old Sep 05, 2014, 04:00 PM
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That's really encouraging. I have one of the older 2220-06 which I'm hoping to static test shortly - I think it has about the same Kv as the 2221-2580. I bought it for a heli, but if adding a ~$40 gearbox makes it a viable glider motor - bargain
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Old Sep 05, 2014, 07:30 PM
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Joined Apr 2002
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I have a Great Planes gearbox. So far it is working well. I have not used a gearbox before so what periodic maintenance should I do? I would assume an annual lube.
How does this gearbox compare to other manufacturers In quality?

Thanks
Curtis
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Old Sep 05, 2014, 08:28 PM
"...certainty is absurd."
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I did some static tests this afternoon. Most of the tests were done with either a 1.0Ah, 4S 45C Nanotech, or a 1.3Ah, 3S N45C Nanotech. I charged the battery before each run, and let it sit for 15 to 20 minutes before the test. All tests were done at 30m above sea level and about 24C.

The motor never got very hot after 30 seconds on any of the runs. I could easily hold my finger on the case. All runs where with the canopy off, so I could hook up the watt meter, so that would help with the cooling.

I just received my ThunderPower 850mAh 70C batteries (on sale at Draganfly, free shipping). The watts are about 50 less than on the 1.3Ah 45C Nanotech, but it was the first cycle, and I hope it improves. I put 365 mAh back in the TP after a 30 second static run on the 16x8".

I'm not very experienced with gearboxes, so I don't know about maintenance. Not much info in the instructions. The Ammo gearbox is pretty heavy for our power levels, and looks a bit crude compared to the MicroEdition, but then it is $40. I far prefer direct drive for simplicity and lower cost, but the Maxa fuse is tough to get a motor in.

Kevin
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Old Sep 05, 2014, 10:10 PM
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Albuq, NMex USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Suter View Post
I have a Great Planes gearbox. So far it is working well. I have not used a gearbox before so what periodic maintenance should I do? I would assume an annual lube.
How does this gearbox compare to other manufacturers In quality?

Thanks
Curtis
Some manufactures, I think, recommend that after 20 minutes of initial service the gearbox should be checked, cleaned and re lubed, then once a year. I have several gearboxes including both the Ammo 4.3:1 gearbox and a Multiplex 3.3:1 gearbox. I like the Multiplex a bit better, but both seems ok. The Multiplex can be purchased for less than $20.00. which is a plus. Should mention though that the Multiplex gearbox has a 4 mm shaft while the Ammo has a 5 mm shaft.

Mike
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Old Sep 06, 2014, 02:39 AM
MrE
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Where can you buy just the Multiplex gearbox? The only thing I can find is motor/gearbox combos.
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Old Sep 06, 2014, 03:10 AM
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Permax-Multi...item23402aee2d

Make an offer. I am pretty sure you can get one for $15.00, maybe a bit lower.

Mike
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Old Sep 06, 2014, 08:20 AM
Cumulus Altimus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeC View Post
Some manufactures, I think, recommend that after 20 minutes of initial service the gearbox should be checked, cleaned and re lubed, then once a year. I have several gearboxes including both the Ammo 4.3:1 gearbox and a Multiplex 3.3:1 gearbox. I like the Multiplex a bit better, but both seems ok. The Multiplex can be purchased for less than $20.00. which is a plus. Should mention though that the Multiplex gearbox has a 4 mm shaft while the Ammo has a 5 mm shaft.

Mike
Hi Mike, can you tell us why you like the Multiplex GB better since you own both?
What differences do you see? What prop do you use on what motor? I also have the micro addition 5.1 GB it shows to be 3.15mm but when I try to push it on a 3.17mm scorpion 2221-10 3000kv shaft it is just loose I just don't know how to make work. I tried look tite it felt good but upon running the motor it came loose.
Thanks
Ben
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Old Sep 06, 2014, 08:56 AM
Balsa addiction since age 3
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Upstate NY
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Hey Kevin,
thanks for posting this... I am contemplating a change from cheap outrunners for my next build. I have only been using out runners but have a fuse with a tighter fit that likely will require an gearbox to fit.

Just a heads up, I had several 1300mAH 45-90C nanotech from hobbyking. I could not pull more than 30-33A without them sagging appreciably (well over 1 volt under this load). I have switched to others that pull steadily with roughly 1v or less drop under load. Have you measured the current you are getting on your combinations?
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Old Sep 06, 2014, 09:19 AM
Cumulus Altimus
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TP 1300 70c @ 100g should be the way to go.
Ben
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Old Sep 06, 2014, 10:04 AM
"...certainty is absurd."
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I'm regularly getting 45A out of my 4S 1.0Ah Nanotechs over 30 secs for several years now. They seem to last 150 cycles doing two flights per charge. At $12 a battery, I find them good value.

My ground runs above were getting 42+A out of the 1.3Ah 3S Nanos over the 30 seconds (460W on 3S at 30sec.). That is in line with the eCalc predictions for the props I was running, so may not be the maximum.

I am not super impressed with the TP 850mAh packs so far, I'll have to do some more testing before I spend that much on batteries again.

Draganfly shows the TP 1300mAh 3S battery weighs 109g without a connector and with their goofy balance plug. It would be the same weight as the Nanotech with connectors, cost 4x as much, and the Nanotech work fine for me in this application. If I can't save any weight, I won't spend the money to get 45A.

Kevin

Edit: The ThunderPower web site shows 109g also:

http://www.thunderpowerrc.com/Produc.../TP1300-3SPF70
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Old Sep 06, 2014, 10:30 AM
"...certainty is absurd."
kcaldwel's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeC View Post
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Permax-Multi...item23402aee2d

Make an offer. I am pretty sure you can get one for $15.00, maybe a bit lower.

Mike
What is the weight and power handling capability of this gearbox? What motor shaft size? I can't seem to find specs on the web, not even the Multiplex site:

http://www.multiplex-rc.de/en/produc...wshopitems_pi1[action]=index&tx_lwshopitems_pi1[controller]=Category&cHash=87195a60da8fdf22217c0e8b8a3a8464

It seems to be for 480 size motors that seem to be about 275W max. Does it survive at 500W? I have read of the Ammo gearbox being run at 1000W.

$20 with install kit:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Multiplex-Per...3D151315189758

Kevin

Edit:Found a few specs here:

http://www.ruberkon.com/332645-plane...box-4-4-1.html

53g, 4mm diameter output shaft, 2.3 and 3.2mm input shafts.
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Old Sep 06, 2014, 10:31 AM
Cumulus Altimus
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My scale shows right@ 100g including plug on TP 133 70c.
And I run it with 16x8 on 1025 powerline motor with lots of power 498watts 30s with no sagging.
Ben
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Old Sep 06, 2014, 11:15 AM
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Ben,

I am not fond of the seemingly thin walls of the Ammo. The threaded portion gets machined out in places where the mounting holes are. Another difference is that the Ammo requires a press on pinion, which is nice, the Multiplex pinion just fits snuggly, and you have to use GREEN loctite to fix it to the motor shaft. It has worked fine for 20 or so flight thus far. I am not familiar with the Micro addition, but are you using GREEN loctite 638?
It may make the difference.

Kevin,

You have posted a link to the 4.4:1 gearbox not the 3.3:1, but they weigh the same.

The gearbox handles the Hyperion 2221-3000 quite well it appears. Here are predicted and actual measurements. The actual measurements are taken from a CC 50 lite data log, after a morning of flying. eCalc was used for the predicttion.

Using a Hyperion 2221-3000 kv motor attached to a 3.3-1 Multiplex gearbox and a 13.5X7 Aeronaut prop @ 5555 ft. ASL.

Predicted on a fresh battery is 44.67 amps and 459 watts.
Actual data logged is 44.5 amps and 481 watts

Predicted with a less then freshly charged battery (approx. 60 sec prior run time) is 40.88 amps and 398 watts
Actual data logged is 39.9 amps and 400 watts.

Temperature prediction with the poor cooling in the Electra is 160 deg f.
Actual after a 23 second climb (highest of the day) was 161 deg f. (max safe is 175 deg f)

Actual battery used was a 1300 55 C, 3 cell, predicted was with a 1300 55 C, 3 cell.

Mike
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Old Sep 06, 2014, 11:27 AM
Cumulus Altimus
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Mike yes I used the lock tite but be honest with you don't think it was green I think it was blue.
I think I will order the multiplex if it can go up to 480watts it's good for me,I saw 2 pinions in the picture are they just 2 diff size?
Thx
Ben
BTW: what prop did you use on multiplex?
How many watts?
Since your post did not mention it.
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