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Old Oct 17, 2011, 03:10 PM
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G550Ted's Avatar
Savannah, GA
Joined Jan 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordks View Post
AJ, I simply do not understand your constant pushing of that MicroDan motor. From your own data you got almost exactly the same power at a given voltage. For the MicroDan you got 305.6 W at 11.25 V against 304.3 W at 11.23 V for the other, both using an APC 6x4. In order to get the higher wattages you had to go to a seven inch prop which won't even fit unless you do some fairly ugly mods to the motor mount. I don't like the looks of the motor mounted out the back of the nacelle.

And the MicroDan costs five times as much! Wow is right!

What happened to the AJ that was so interested in saving all the poor, unsuspecting newbies from spending (or knowing) more than is absolutely necessary? After all, as you said, "this is still just slightly more than a toy". Why put a motor on it that costs more than the whole Bixler ARF?

Gord
Now, now... Don't confuse him with facts and data or he might take cheap shots at you too.

Ted
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Old Oct 17, 2011, 03:13 PM
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Gustavus, OH
Joined Oct 2007
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Originally Posted by aeronca View Post
I used some good old left over GWS "contact cement" and then taped over it with clear packing tape. I believe others have used white Groilla glue and tape, but I'm sure you'll get many different responses.

Aeronca
I have some tubes of GWS glue around and have always had great luck with it. Me and CA have an "iffy" thing going. I love it with balsa, seems almost hit or miss with foam though. Then again, Gorilla glue NEVER lets go.....I have to think a bit. I only get one chance....and that rod is important

Cliff
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Old Oct 17, 2011, 03:18 PM
Row 0, Seat A
G550Ted's Avatar
Savannah, GA
Joined Jan 2008
2,706 Posts
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Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
Solo'd today....WOO HOOOOO!! I'll be gettin' my certificate by next meeting!
Congrats SH! Keep up the good work (practice, practice, practice!), and don't try to establish any new low flying record.

Ted
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Old Oct 17, 2011, 03:22 PM
Argue for your limitations
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Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G550Ted View Post
Now, now... Don't confuse him with facts and data or he might take cheap shots at you too.

Ted
I am not the on that got "shot" down by the moderator TWICE.
AJ
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Old Oct 17, 2011, 03:24 PM
Row 0, Seat A
G550Ted's Avatar
Savannah, GA
Joined Jan 2008
2,706 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozair View Post
Hey guys, just finished some bench testing on the RC Timer BC 2212/6-2200 motor I recently installed on my SkyS V2 with various props:

All testing was performed using Turnigy 2200 mAh 3S 20C battery fully charged and GT Power 130A Wattmeter (same as Turnigy Wattmeter).

Stock 5x3 23.31Ap/11.85Vm/276.2Wp
MAS 6x4 Nitro 29.96Ap/11.83Vm/355.6Wp
TGS 6x4 E 32.48Ap/11.67Vm/380.3Wp
APC 6x4 EP 33.15Ap/11.75Vm/391.1Wp
MAS 6x4x3 EP 38.06Ap/11.63Vm/443.0Wp

What a difference a prop makes. I use the TGS so to be on the safe side I have to upgrade my esc from 30A to 40A.
I aslo have to find out if this motor can handle 40A so as to use the 3 bladed MAS screw with confidence, but if it can what a jet engine that would make
Be careful Oz. Those motors can handle only around 28 amps for limited time. A 40 amp ESC is a good idea at that power if you don't have really good cooling provisions for it.

Ted
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Old Oct 17, 2011, 03:29 PM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordks View Post
AJ, I simply do not understand your constant pushing of that MicroDan motor. From your own data you got almost exactly the same power at a given voltage. For the MicroDan you got 305.6 W at 11.25 V against 304.3 W at 11.23 V for the other, both using an APC 6x4. In order to get the higher wattages you had to go to a seven inch prop which won't even fit unless you do some fairly ugly mods to the motor mount. I don't like the looks of the motor mounted out the back of the nacelle.

And the MicroDan costs five times as much! Wow is right!

What happened to the AJ that was so interested in saving all the poor, unsuspecting newbies from spending (or knowing) more than is absolutely necessary? After all, as you said, "this is still just slightly more than a toy". Why put a motor on it that costs more than the whole Bixler ARF?

Gord
Gord,

In my stage of life I won't waste my money on equipment that's let me down.

The Microdan 2505 high KV motor is $55 but has a real warranty. With a APC Sport prop my Skysurfer disappears in a vertical climb beyond what I can see. I have used RCT / Suppo / Grayson / and other distributors 2212-06. I bought 5 of them at $14 each ($56). 4 of the 5 tossed magnets in one or two flights. Warranty was a pain that makes me the final inspector and QC dept for these motors. My experience with them is they are junk. I still have the one good 2212-06 on F22 scratchbuilt prop in the slot foam plane and its worked fine on 6x4 APC E prop. Sure, I could try to glue the magnets back in but I would rather buy a motor that worked out of the box vs. sorting through cheap junk that is prone to failure.

I have decide cheap is not the best if you count all the costs associated with finding the good one. At least as it applies to the 2212-06 and similar motors.

Bill
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Old Oct 17, 2011, 03:37 PM
Row 0, Seat A
G550Ted's Avatar
Savannah, GA
Joined Jan 2008
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Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post
I am not the on that got "shot" down by the moderator TWICE.
AJ
Oh yes, we know what floats your boat, but everyone else participating in this thread are above such banal behavior. A last recourse when fact and logic fails.
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Old Oct 17, 2011, 06:01 PM View Post
Ole Joe
A moderator felt this post violated the following rule: Personal Attack. It is temporarily hidden while Ole Joe edits it. Show it to me anyway.
Old Oct 17, 2011, 06:10 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
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Originally Posted by Ole Joe View Post
QUOTE=G550Ted;19618708]Oh yes, we know what floats your boat, but everyone else participating in this thread are above such banal behavior. A last recourse when fact and logic fails.
You are so right Ted, when it comes to fact and logic he fails miserably. A prime example is recently when he CLAIMED to have Tx's that pre-loaded the RF output stages, so that if the antenna was disconnected it wouldn't have any harmful effect on the Tx. He stated that was his method for running a Rx ground check, and that he had done it that way 100's of times. When you and others questioned this bizarre way of doing a ground check, he went on the defense trying desperately to cover himself, and the best he could do was to show a picture of what appeared to be a 2.4GHz Tx, with the antenna removed. Apparently, in his mind, that picture proved his point. When I requested the manufacturer and the model number of the 4 Tx's he CLAIMED to own, that had this "pre-load" capability, he ignored me. When I pushed for an answer, he posted a statement to another regular that he wasn't going to divulge that information to me because I had been rude to him in a previous post, and was playing games with the information he presented . This was his last ditch effort to save face, as he knew that if he provided the information he would come out looking pretty sorry. He seems to be very talented at making erroneous statements, and when questioned, not being able to back them up, or admit that he is wrong. I found it hysterical, that after he presented his way of doing a Rx ground check, and others had questioned his method, he made it a point to not recommend his method, thus the reason why he hadn't put it on page #1 of this forum. Say what? He was really reaching and groping for anything to try and cover his rear end at that point.[/QUOTE]

Please edit your post because it is getting far too personal. It is not needed and offers no value to this thread on Sky Surfer modifications.
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Last edited by Prof100; Oct 17, 2011 at 08:13 PM.
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Old Oct 17, 2011, 06:19 PM
Earthbound Skyhound
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United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
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StarHopper wrote (in part):
"I'd wanted this to be an example AJ could maybe post up on Page1 to show newbs & prospective buyers what these planes can do. [snip]

And AJ responded:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post
Nice - REALLY nice landing. I wish all of my were half that good. Ok. What follows is (I hope) a constructive opinion of videos in general. Here is what has been passed around as a "standard" of videography for AV flying.
...[snip] AJ

Please note emphasis on 'had wanted'.....but I thought I had also made it apparent I knew this product was not up to the standard to be satisfactory for that (Page1) goal. Not worthy, and I knew that.

And then when I see a response such as this, I can't help but feel it is a critique of what I did....seeing it directly attached to my introduction can hardly be taken any other way -- but seeing it also touches several different poiints I know I did not 'transgress', I also know it's directed to "movie making" (for a catchall term) tips for everyone, & not just me.

I would ask 2 things to be taken into consideration:
First - I know how to make better movies....but I'm very limited in what tools I have to work with. I could even find and use workarounds to make this movie better, but it would take a TREMENDOUS investment in both effort and time to do so (in MY case in general and in THIS video's case in specific) but in the end, all it would be is a quick snippet in the few who view its' lives, that would be at best forgotten by tomorrow. So, the long & short equation is, it's not WORTH the time or effort to be made better.

And second, no I'm not a Speilberg....never wanted to be, nor aspired to be one. But that's beside the point. The thing is, eg, 'West Side Story' was magnificent. A Masterpiece. Loved by millions. I .... didn't care for it one whit. If the girl of my dreams offered to take me to see it again, I'd pass.
Obviously, that's MY opinion....and AJ noted his 'tips' are his opinion. THE point here is, I don't care HOW great a job you do, there'll always be a number of folks who, despite your best efforts, won't 'like' it.

Hence my note about not lookin' for any Oscars. I saw it for what it was....10 minutes to burn, not up to the goal for Pg1 placement, and why I basically forewarned those who might not be interested in seeing a tiny plane a long way off, but gave a couple of highlights they might enjoy if they dared to watch. Just as I've been prone to do before - forewarn - and have even gotten sort've 'eat out' over that too. Just as if sound's too loud, you know how to turn it down, I trust the judgment of others to, if 10 minutes is too long, know how to either stop the movie or quit watching, or just not click it in the first place.

So why am I taking the time to spell all this out? Well, when it happens two times in a row immediately after your video, one is drawn to the conclusion others are saying "you're a bad movie maker". A first response might be, "OK, I'll just not be posting any more videos here for these people, so's not to suffer any more slings and arrows". And I'd venture others might have that same reaction.

Me, I tell ya up front -- "I'm a BAD MOVIEMAKER, AND THIS IS A BAD MOVIE. Watch it if you dare." At least I warned you.

And I'm happy with that.

So, does "Making Good Movies" get a place on Page1? This forum isn't about making good movies - so hopeully that answers that. Besides that, you can't even get people to agree on what a good movie is. All that will EVER be is, "I.M.O." Each is what it is, take it or leave it, criticise it - publicly or privately - if you feel you must. I don't. I can click 'Stop' or 'Leave' without saying a word. Publicly or privately - that's a whole new topic I see as coming under "Rudeness vs Good Manners", and it treads a thin line.

Ask me by PM if I'd like some movie-making tips? Short answer: No. Long answer: Don't need 'em.

My 3.
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Old Oct 17, 2011, 06:45 PM
Why so serious?
2500GENE's Avatar
United States, FL, Cape Coral
Joined Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
OK all....after 7 hours work transferring & uploading, I hope you'll understand why I ain't up to no music soundtrack & editing at this moment, but here in raw form is the video of my Bix gettin' hot-dawg'd by my Sensei yesterday after I solo'd.

I'd wanted this to be an example AJ could maybe post up on Page1 to show newbs & prospective buyers what these planes can do. Mike pretty well did his part (keep in mind there was gusting 20mph winds aloft, & wind blows foam around pretty easily), but the camera work suffered a bit. When we started we were over 3 Park-flyer Foamys, so had to get up a ways, and I couldn't keep it in view when zoomed even only a stop or two so, it's basically a far look. Maybe we can get something better at another time.

Too, I left raw sound so you can hear the commentary & the motor sound - including the radar clocking. ANYwayz....not looking no Oscars or anythin', this is just for your entertainment if you've got 10 minutes to burn. I think you'll like the landing. Cute commentary afterwards, too.


Thanx for watching!
Here, I found some music for your video.

Toby Keith - Trailerhood (3 min 28 sec)
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Old Oct 17, 2011, 06:57 PM
Earthbound Skyhound
StarHopper44's Avatar
United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
5,056 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Please edit your post because it is getting far too personal. It is not needed and offers no value to this thread on Sky Surfer modifications.
AMEN to that, Prof!

Geez guys.....it seems everybody must be 'flying the flag' or something. I say PLEASE let's end this pissing match right here and now.

Here's something I've seen work before:
Open NotePad or something, and write a response to anybody you'd like to address based on the last response......say anything you'd like to them, cuss 'em out, call 'em names....ANYTHING. Then just walk away from your computer & take a few deep breaths (I like to go out back & look at the stars awhile). Leave it open on your desktop awhile or even overnight and when you come back just close it without reading again, pretend you posted it and there never was a reply....so it's not worth discussing & never mention it again.

The long & short of it is, this isn't a contest - there's nothing to be won! And only harm can be brought by it. Imagine any newcomer to this forum, coming to this end of it to see what's currently going on and finding this. You seriously think he'd want to join in & be a part of it? Bottom line, is this doing the forum, or its participants, any good? The simple, yet far-reaching answer is, NO.

I would ask, as Prof suggested, to go so far as going back to all posts where you've said anything personal about anyone and editing it out. Just pretend, if it'll make you feel better, that you "won".....clean up your part of the mess, & let it go. Your cooperation will be very appreciated.

Go Bix!
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Old Oct 17, 2011, 07:10 PM
Earthbound Skyhound
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United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2500GENE View Post
Here, I found some music for your video.
Weee haw....luv me some Tobah!
(Don't worry....I'm workin' on somethin'.)


But dang, fella....thought you's halfway t' Jawgia by now - figgered missing you's why everybody's actin' up. How long IS that drop cord??
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Old Oct 17, 2011, 07:47 PM
Space is the answer
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Australia, VIC, Warneet
Joined Mar 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post

An anemometer and a Db meter on a test bench are pretty useless items in our sport. Thrust information is always nice to have. Also, an RPM meter is somewhat useful. However, you could go through your entire life without one.I am pretty sure he meant that an airspeed indicator for a flying airplane would be nice. That would make sense. I use an anemometer only to measure the wind speed at the site I am flying at.
IMO, the only thing that is necessary is a Watt Meter. But, even then, if you never change the power system, you really don't need it either. Keep in mind that this is still just slightly more than a toy.
AJ
I am not advocating that a dBa meter is an absolute must have item, simply suggested it to get some form of relative measure on the noise levels for the different props. Similarly, not having any airspeed indicator you can get a relative measure of it by using an anemometer (a not altogether useless instrument in this hobby) in the prop wash.
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Old Oct 17, 2011, 07:54 PM
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Hey ozair, did you do those prop measurements on the bench or in the air? Even the APC prop seems to be pulling way more amps than it should be. I know in the air, the amps should be lower but I just wanted to find out for sure.
Working on graphs right now.
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