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Old Jun 10, 2009, 11:09 AM
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Happy 212th Anniversary

Treaty of Tripoli

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

The Senate approved the treaty on June 7, 1797, and officially ratified by the Senate with John Adams signature on 10 June, 1797.

Although the Treaty of Tripoli under agreement only lasted a few years and no longer has legal status, it clearly represented the feelings of our Founding Fathers at the beginning of the American government.

http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/s...7/secular.html


Jim
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 11:13 AM
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No one ever, ever, ever, said that America was "founded" upon any religion, Christian or otherwise.

In fact, it was founded upon Christian principles, not the religion itself, and it is those principles which shaped America.

Not a subtle difference.

Some more background:
http://faithfulrebel.blogspot.com/20...igion-and.html
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Last edited by Highflight; Jun 10, 2009 at 11:19 AM.
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 11:19 AM
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"in any sense, "



Jim
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 11:24 AM
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Just in case you didn't get it:

Quote:
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz
Just in case you didn't get it:
Just in case you didn't get it:

Quote:
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 11:52 AM
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He didn't get it Wiz.................
Probably never will but maybe some others will..................hope springs eternal

Jim
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by me11owman
He didn't get it Wiz.................
Probably never will but maybe some others will..................hope springs eternal

Jim
No, you didn't get either. Not so much hope there...

Do you guys not know that America broke away from Britain in order to be free of religious domination?
So no, American was not founded upon any religion. No argument there.

But somehow, you can look at all the religious references in the founding documents (all of them) and not see that this country is most definitely founded upon general religious principles.

Nope, still not much hope there, when written words become totally invisible to some.
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Last edited by Highflight; Jun 10, 2009 at 01:07 PM.
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Highflight
No, you didn't get either. Not so much hope there...

because it isn't there..........
That whole thing is a construction of the movement of evangelicals from the 1930's.


jim
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 01:39 PM
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The facts that America was founded upon a freedom of religion, but that it was founded upon religious principles are not antithetical.
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by me11owman
Treaty of Tripoli

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

<snip>

Jim
Hmm, never knew that. Always thought that it was about invading-- or not-- some sovereign Muslin state.

Interesting website.
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 02:29 PM
I got too many hobbies!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by me11owman
Treaty of Tripoli

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; Jim

Try actually reading the Declaration of Independence, it may help.

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

We are a secular government, but the country was definitely founded upon Christian beliefs.
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by me11owman
because it isn't there..........
That whole thing is a construction of the movement of evangelicals from the 1930's.
Yeah, except for the letters from Hamilton, et al, that say different.
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRETT65
Try actually reading the Declaration of Independence, it may help.
OK

Quote:
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
The highlighted keywords are clearly deist. Where are the "Christian beliefs" brought into this document?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRETT65
We are a secular government, but the country was definitely founded upon Christian beliefs.
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Last edited by Jacques Flambeau; Jun 11, 2009 at 12:42 PM. Reason: speling errur
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Old Jun 11, 2009, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Harris
OK


The highlighted pkeywords are clearly deist. Where are the "Christian beliefs" brought into this document?

Creator comes from creation. Creation is a Christian belief, and the founders were Christians. Denyers only do so to help themselves sleep better at night.
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Old Jun 11, 2009, 12:51 PM
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Wrong. All human societies have creation traditions (or myths, if you will).

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=f&oq=&aqi=g10

Unless your're talking about creationists, which is a whole 'nuther ballgame.

Nowhere does it say "christ" or "christian" in the Declaration...
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