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Old Dec 16, 2010, 03:15 PM
RC Helis: My Healthy Obsession
The OC, California
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Old Dec 16, 2010, 05:43 PM
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rew-7's Avatar
UK, Leeds.
Joined Mar 2009
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Originally Posted by ri0grand View Post
I moved the ball in on the servo arm in to give the servo more swing. I was able to get the gain up to 68% before it shakes. I am running it at 66% just slightly below when the shake starts. The min gyro sensitivity seems to be 51% This gives me 15% above that which should be safer. I could move the ball in one more hole but the push rod angle isn't optimal any more.
Not sure about the min of only 51%-I take it you know about rate and HH modes and this is as low as you could set. Maybe this Rx only runs in HH, that a new one on me though as you usually use rate to set up.

My limited knowledge would say stick with those settings as it sounds like thats the optimal. When I get mine I'm running all non Walkera on servo's for both tail and cyclic so may not get the same results anyway. If I can get a higher gain I'll let you know my set up.
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Old Dec 16, 2010, 10:21 PM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
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Originally Posted by rew-7 View Post
Not sure about the min of only 51%-I take it you know about rate and HH modes and this is as low as you could set. Maybe this Rx only runs in HH, that a new one on me though as you usually use rate to set up.

My limited knowledge would say stick with those settings as it sounds like thats the optimal. When I get mine I'm running all non Walkera on servo's for both tail and cyclic so may not get the same results anyway. If I can get a higher gain I'll let you know my set up.
When I go below 51% the gyro doesn't seem to react to yaw at all. That's why I said it seems like the min value. I figure the number is relative and not necessarily and absolute value that has the same meaning from one gyro to the next. I am not sure if it can be run in rate mode or not.
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Old Dec 17, 2010, 12:05 AM
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USA, IL, Elgin
Joined Jan 2006
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This seems like a great deal for 15 blades. Anyone try these?

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.48344
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Old Dec 17, 2010, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by stretch1100 View Post
This seems like a great deal for 15 blades. Anyone try these?

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.48344
Yes, already tried it, they weight 12g each, the most weight difference I see is 0.2g.

They are more rigid than the original CF and fly great, but easy to break.

There is a fiberglass square rod inside covered with painted plastic, painted like CF appearence.
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Old Dec 17, 2010, 09:17 AM
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Joined Jan 2006
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Originally Posted by martin_ View Post
Yes, already tried it, they weight 12g each, the most weight difference I see is 0.2g.

They are more rigid than the original CF and fly great, but easy to break.

There is a fiberglass square rod inside covered with painted plastic, painted like CF appearence.
I have some of the plastic trex 250 ones on the way already. Which ones do you prefer having purchased this set of 15?
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Old Dec 17, 2010, 09:55 AM
Hong Kong
Joined Jan 2010
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I had a blade stike today while trying to take off. A couple of servos were stripped in addition to the damaged blades.

I find it very easy to trip over when trying to take off? Can you tell me what is the best way to take off? Do you open the throttle gradually or do you yank it up suddenly at one stage?

I wasn't facing the wind today and this was probably a big mistake, although the wind was relatively mild.
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Old Dec 17, 2010, 12:48 PM
"you'll play to live "
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Canada, QC, Montreal
Joined Sep 2009
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Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
I had a blade stike today while trying to take off. A couple of servos were stripped in addition to the damaged blades.

I find it very easy to trip over when trying to take off? Can you tell me what is the best way to take off? Do you open the throttle gradually or do you yank it up suddenly at one stage?

I wasn't facing the wind today and this was probably a big mistake, although the wind was relatively mild.
Usually, stock 3axis's RX only act when there's throtle input so check yours?if just bind heli and there's swash moving then Rx has problem resulting to faster 3axis action when just raising throtle, even 1/3 travel. Try to change for another Esc's (go for earlier post) and you'll never have to worry about tip over symptom (stock esc is too sensitive with high input causing overheat motor,main gear strip easily and blade strikes when lift-off and the bad thing is it can be reprogrammed).
AC
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Old Dec 17, 2010, 12:51 PM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
Joined May 2009
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Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
I had a blade stike today while trying to take off. A couple of servos were stripped in addition to the damaged blades.

I find it very easy to trip over when trying to take off? Can you tell me what is the best way to take off? Do you open the throttle gradually or do you yank it up suddenly at one stage?

I wasn't facing the wind today and this was probably a big mistake, although the wind was relatively mild.
One thing to check for is your swashplate position after your heli binds. I found that if your elevator or aileron trim is not centered when you bind, the swashplate position will be off from level. After binding it seems to be in the opposite direction of the trim. If you bind with trims centered this doesn't happen. Use the mechanical adjustment of the links to get it as close as possible to level. Adjusting the swashplate to level should be done with the swash gyro off (switch 1 on the RX should be set to ADJ (position1)). This will make sure the swash isn't trying to level itself if you move the heli while adjusting. Don't forget to switch it back before you start flying! Otherwise the swash gyro will be disabled.

To take off I usually let the head spin up slowly so the heli doesn't spin to much when the head starts up. I then slowly bring the head up to speed to the point the positive pitch is starting to make the heli light. If your swash isn't level you will probably notice it will start to tip. If all looks good at this point I give it a more aggressive push of the stick to get it off the ground. I like it bring it up to speed slowly so I can check things look ok before I pop it up. If you "yank it up suddenly in one stage", your motor may not be up to speed the positive pitch is kicking in. Once motor catches up you may have more pitch/speed than you want for a normal take off.

Also check that the blade strike didn't damage the swash. The steel ball connectors can strip loose of the aluminum swash after a hard strike. Depending on the severity of the strike, you may have to rebalance the blades too.
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Old Dec 17, 2010, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ri0grand View Post
When I go below 51% the gyro doesn't seem to react to yaw at all. That's why I said it seems like the min value. I figure the number is relative and not necessarily and absolute value that has the same meaning from one gyro to the next. I am not sure if it can be run in rate mode or not.
Hi rio

0-50% is rate mode 51-100% is HH with around 50 being neutral. 0 is the highest setting of gain for rate and 100 is the highest for HH. If you want more info search setting up of HH gyro. You need to set the gyro up in rate mode first so it doesn't drift too much then when you set HH your servo will be in the optimum position.
Hope this is clear as I'm not the greatest at explaining.
Try some % less than 35/40 and tail should start to hold again-assuming this is standard HH gyro we are playing with.
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Old Dec 17, 2010, 06:10 PM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
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Originally Posted by rew-7 View Post
Hi rio

0-50% is rate mode 51-100% is HH with around 50 being neutral. 0 is the highest setting of gain for rate and 100 is the highest for HH. If you want more info search setting up of HH gyro. You need to set the gyro up in rate mode first so it doesn't drift too much then when you set HH your servo will be in the optimum position.
Hope this is clear as I'm not the greatest at explaining.
Try some % less than 35/40 and tail should start to hold again-assuming this is standard HH gyro we are playing with.
I tried setting it lower that 50%. The only way I get get it to hold below 50% is with full right trim. As I it approaches 0% the tail servo starts to wag a lot.

When is yours due to arrive?
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Old Dec 17, 2010, 09:23 PM
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Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2009
1,489 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
I had a blade stike today while trying to take off. A couple of servos were stripped in addition to the damaged blades.

I find it very easy to trip over when trying to take off? Can you tell me what is the best way to take off? Do you open the throttle gradually or do you yank it up suddenly at one stage?

I wasn't facing the wind today and this was probably a big mistake, although the wind was relatively mild.
Hi zadaw,

Sorry to hear about the blade strike. One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is throttle and pitch curves. Seems like somewhere along the way, my curves were messed up, and it caused the heli to be hard to take off and land. You might try messing with the 'hov p' and 'hov t' to see if it's better, then adjust your curves accordingly. For example, what if you don't have enough head speed at take off, or not enough headspeed for the corresponding pitch?

To answer your question, I let it spool up, similar to what ri0grand described, then I'll usually let it float off the ground, without a dramatic punch. I know people have advised against it, but I'll let it sit a few inches off the ground for a bit sometimes, then slowly climb out. It seems to handle it just fine.

People have talked about an unlevel swash, so I'd like to try to take another shot at describing my method for a level swash and good tracking blades. I came up with this all on my own, so please let me know if I'm messing something up, or can add to it:
1. Take a pitch gauge, and attach a level to the top of it. I happen to use the orange and blue pitch gauge that Wow sells, and I like it because you use the knob on the gauge to finely adjust the gauge, not just hold it in place, like some other pitch gauges I've seen/used. It also goes up to +/- 15 degrees. The level I found is from Home Depot. See pic.
2. I was taught to set your throttle hold pitch curve to be the same as your idle-up pitch curve, (at least at the hover point) which might be the same as your normal pitch curve (at least the upper half, or course). I've also used the method taught to me by dkfuji, and Finless Bob, which is to set up your pitch curves so that you've got zero degrees pitch at mid-stick.
3. Flip the little switch on the rx to the 'adj' position, bind the heli. Flip it to throttle hold. Given everything described in step 2, you should have the same pitch curves as you are using, with no throttle.
4. Carefully set the throttle to mid stick, which should, in theory, be zero degrees.
5. Pick one blade to start with, and set your pitch gauge up to it.
6. Line up the swash so that the three posts on the rotating part of the swash line up with the three stationary posts. Note the position of the blade with the pitch gauge on it, and figure out which servo your blade is lining up to (E, A, or P).
7. Note the pitch that the blade is sitting at while lined up to that servo, making sure that the blade is lined up as well as possible with the blade grip (to simulate flying position).
8. Rotate the rotor 120 degrees CW, and your blade, or at least it's post on the swash, should be lined up with the next servo. Note the blade pitch again.
9. Rotate the rotor another 120 degrees, now you should be lined up with the last servo. Note the pitch again.
In a perfect world, your readings would be zero degrees at each of the 3 positions, and your servo arms would all be right at 90 degrees.
Even if your readings are something other than zero, they should all be consistent. If they are, your swash is level. If they are not, adjust the servo-to-swash links until all 3 pitch measurements are the same. It stands to reason that if the pitch measurement taken on the same blade, at three different positions in the rotor rotation, is all the same, then the pitch must be the same throughout the entire rotation--meaning that the swash is level.
10. Once your three readings are consistent, then adjust the swash-to-bladegrip link so that you have zero pitch at mid-stick (or whatever pitch you want at whatever throttle position).
11. Once that blade is turning true, move your pitch gauge to another blade, and adjust the swash-to-bladegrip link of that blade to match whatever pitch reference you just used on the last blade.
12. Once the second blade is turning true, repeat the process to the third blade.
13. Once you are done and the heli is disconnected, be sure to flip that little switch on the rx back to the 'wk' position before flight, as I hear it will certainly flip over on take off if left in the 'adj' position.

If all blades are balanced and everything else is in zen, this should get it done. This would also be a good time to check your total (min/max) pitch.

I just did all of this to my heli last night, in addition to replacement all 6 links and a new belt (after almost 45 flights). The old belt was still running fine, but I could certainly observe the wear with a new belt sitting right next to it. She flew four good packs this morning--knock on wood.

I'm not sure if it's aging batteries or maybe an aging motor, or maybe the heavy blades, but I can tell that it's not quite as punchy as it used to be, and I keep bringing my throttle curves up slowly. How long does one expect a motor to last, btw? Happy Friday,

Rafa
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Old Dec 17, 2010, 10:59 PM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
Joined May 2009
371 Posts
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Originally Posted by Rafa's CB100 View Post
Hi zadaw,

Sorry to hear about the blade strike. One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is throttle and pitch curves. Seems like somewhere along the way, my curves were messed up, and it caused the heli to be hard to take off and land. You might try messing with the 'hov p' and 'hov t' to see if it's better, then adjust your curves accordingly. For example, what if you don't have enough head speed at take off, or not enough headspeed for the corresponding pitch?

To answer your question, I let it spool up, similar to what ri0grand described, then I'll usually let it float off the ground, without a dramatic punch. I know people have advised against it, but I'll let it sit a few inches off the ground for a bit sometimes, then slowly climb out. It seems to handle it just fine.

People have talked about an unlevel swash, so I'd like to try to take another shot at describing my method for a level swash and good tracking blades. I came up with this all on my own, so please let me know if I'm messing something up, or can add to it:
1. Take a pitch gauge, and attach a level to the top of it. I happen to use the orange and blue pitch gauge that Wow sells, and I like it because you use the knob on the gauge to finely adjust the gauge, not just hold it in place, like some other pitch gauges I've seen/used. It also goes up to +/- 15 degrees. The level I found is from Home Depot. See pic.
2. I was taught to set your throttle hold pitch curve to be the same as your idle-up pitch curve, (at least at the hover point) which might be the same as your normal pitch curve (at least the upper half, or course). I've also used the method taught to me by dkfuji, and Finless Bob, which is to set up your pitch curves so that you've got zero degrees pitch at mid-stick.
3. Flip the little switch on the rx to the 'adj' position, bind the heli. Flip it to throttle hold. Given everything described in step 2, you should have the same pitch curves as you are using, with no throttle.
4. Carefully set the throttle to mid stick, which should, in theory, be zero degrees.
5. Pick one blade to start with, and set your pitch gauge up to it.
6. Line up the swash so that the three posts on the rotating part of the swash line up with the three stationary posts. Note the position of the blade with the pitch gauge on it, and figure out which servo your blade is lining up to (E, A, or P).
7. Note the pitch that the blade is sitting at while lined up to that servo, making sure that the blade is lined up as well as possible with the blade grip (to simulate flying position).
8. Rotate the rotor 120 degrees CW, and your blade, or at least it's post on the swash, should be lined up with the next servo. Note the blade pitch again.
9. Rotate the rotor another 120 degrees, now you should be lined up with the last servo. Note the pitch again.
In a perfect world, your readings would be zero degrees at each of the 3 positions, and your servo arms would all be right at 90 degrees.
Even if your readings are something other than zero, they should all be consistent. If they are, your swash is level. If they are not, adjust the servo-to-swash links until all 3 pitch measurements are the same. It stands to reason that if the pitch measurement taken on the same blade, at three different positions in the rotor rotation, is all the same, then the pitch must be the same throughout the entire rotation--meaning that the swash is level.
10. Once your three readings are consistent, then adjust the swash-to-bladegrip link so that you have zero pitch at mid-stick (or whatever pitch you want at whatever throttle position).
11. Once that blade is turning true, move your pitch gauge to another blade, and adjust the swash-to-bladegrip link of that blade to match whatever pitch reference you just used on the last blade.
12. Once the second blade is turning true, repeat the process to the third blade.
13. Once you are done and the heli is disconnected, be sure to flip that little switch on the rx back to the 'wk' position before flight, as I hear it will certainly flip over on take off if left in the 'adj' position.

If all blades are balanced and everything else is in zen, this should get it done. This would also be a good time to check your total (min/max) pitch.

I just did all of this to my heli last night, in addition to replacement all 6 links and a new belt (after almost 45 flights). The old belt was still running fine, but I could certainly observe the wear with a new belt sitting right next to it. She flew four good packs this morning--knock on wood.

I'm not sure if it's aging batteries or maybe an aging motor, or maybe the heavy blades, but I can tell that it's not quite as punchy as it used to be, and I keep bringing my throttle curves up slowly. How long does one expect a motor to last, btw? Happy Friday,

Rafa
I changed my motor once already because of radial play in the shaft. The motor shaft was wearing a groove. I would replace just the shaft if I knew where to get one. Any one have any thoughts on replacement motors other than stock?
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Old Dec 18, 2010, 11:46 AM
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UK, Leeds.
Joined Mar 2009
398 Posts
Hi Rio

That gyro is a strange one. Been waiting for mine for the past few mornings but we have delayed Xmas post in the UK at the moment so it might not arrive until after Xmas! If mine is like yours I would start by getting the servo to centre the pitch slider on the tail shaft (prob 65% gain-as a starting point based on what you've found) then test hover and adjust the tail linkage to get close to no yaw/drift either way. If the tail seems ok pitch pump to check it still holds, then adjust the gain up until the tail starts to hunt-back of a few % and fly. Then fine tune as you see fit.
Once I get mine and its set up I'll let you know what I've learnt.
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Old Dec 18, 2010, 12:09 PM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
Joined May 2009
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Originally Posted by rew-7 View Post
Hi Rio

That gyro is a strange one. Been waiting for mine for the past few mornings but we have delayed Xmas post in the UK at the moment so it might not arrive until after Xmas! If mine is like yours I would start by getting the servo to centre the pitch slider on the tail shaft (prob 65% gain-as a starting point based on what you've found) then test hover and adjust the tail linkage to get close to no yaw/drift either way. If the tail seems ok pitch pump to check it still holds, then adjust the gain up until the tail starts to hunt-back of a few % and fly. Then fine tune as you see fit.
Once I get mine and its set up I'll let you know what I've learnt.
The "tail setup mode" turns of the gyro so it is easy to get the neutral position set. It also lets you move the tail pitch to the endpoints you select by moving the stick and then you confirm each direction with the set button.
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