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Old Jun 26, 2007, 10:34 AM
Heli Addict....
Ecaf's Avatar
West Dundee, Il.
Joined Nov 2003
1,937 Posts
Help!
First autorotation - Not so good

Im lucky that next to my normal flying field (soccer) is a nice farm field of wheat. I figured it was time to finally try an auto since I have a place that could help lessen the impact of landing.

My heli is a Trex-400 hybrid running Trex wood 315's. I have my HOLD set to -3 degrees pitch and was flying in ID2 (2600RPM) when I hit the hold. It was about 75' up and moving forward in a relatively slow FF.

Hit the switch, dropped the collective, and she really came down FAST. I got to a couple of feet above the wheat, little bit of flare and started full collective but it didnt seem to slow down much at all. I could really see the blades lost all their energy.

Belt tightness seems perfect, I have lubed everything and the heil is well broken in. I have reviewed Finless' videos for a smooth heli as well as his auto videos, but for the life of me I couldnt see why I lost all the blade energy that fast.

So, does anyone out there have any thoughts as to what to try next? Bigger blades? Forget auto's in a 400 size?

Oh, and no damage I love that field....

Thanks...
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Old Jun 26, 2007, 10:55 AM
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United States, CA, Chico
Joined Feb 2007
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I got off to a bad start this morning here at work, high stress job, so I sat down in my office to read the forum. I saw your post and I thought it was going to lead to a part search in a field. I have to tell you it made me feel better that you had no damage.
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Old Jun 26, 2007, 10:59 AM
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Ecaf's Avatar
West Dundee, Il.
Joined Nov 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliSmith
I got off to a bad start this morning here at work, high stress job, so I sat down in my office to read the forum. I saw your post and I thought it was going to lead to a part search in a field. I have to tell you it made me feel better that you had no damage.
Hehehe...

Glad I could brighten your day a little bit!

I HIGHLY recommend everyone get a wheat field for practicing auto's
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Old Jun 26, 2007, 11:07 AM
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Los Angeles, CA
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I'm thinking it's the combo of woodies and the 315s. Finless autos with Align CF 325s.
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Old Jun 26, 2007, 11:53 AM
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Joined Apr 2006
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stiff and alittle longer blades help. try 325mm blades such as vblades or the align blades. all blades will auto to a certain degree but these blades should help you out. bob is the man when it comes to autoing his trex though, just something about his stick movements that i can't replicate. autos aren't easy, believe me.

but your headspeed seems alittle low also, just me, have it higher at 3000RPM or higher and point the heli into the wind, unload the head, and feather it down.

better let bob tell u how he does it.
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Old Jun 26, 2007, 12:21 PM
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United States, GA, Roswell
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autos scare me Glad there was no damage.

I agree with the above, 10g+ heavier blades (align carbons are 72g 'ish per set?) + 10mm longer = significantly more angular momentum in the rotor, thus energy retention.
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Old Jun 26, 2007, 12:59 PM
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Ecaf's Avatar
West Dundee, Il.
Joined Nov 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieNewYork
I'm thinking it's the combo of woodies and the 315s. Finless autos with Align CF 325s.
Ahh, good to know. I missed that from his setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by driftinsequence
but your headspeed seems alittle low also, just me, have it higher at 3000RPM or higher and point the heli into the wind, unload the head, and feather it down.
Yeah I know, running 11T pinion and trying to keep the speed down for the wood blades. Upgrade to C/F would allow that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybt
autos scare me Glad there was no damage.
Me too, funny thing is my normal field (3-4" thick grass) and some gorilla gear, I think it would have survived with little to no damage.

Thanks guys for the replys, I was most concerned about my setup and if I didnt have enough neg pitch. I think a set of C/F blades is in order before I head down that path again. Glad to know that I can at least kinda do it, even if its not perfect.
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Old Jun 26, 2007, 03:28 PM
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I hope i'm not preaching to the choir here, but this stuff has taken me forever to figure out... and I'm pretty sure Align carbons and CF blades are not the same. Align carbon blades are heavy as hell and actually made of plastic with a CF rod in them and weight added to the tips... CF blades will likely be even lighter than your woodies... which poses a potential problem for doing autos (less angular momentum). They will probably be better powered flying blades (less drag, higher speed, lighter, etc.), however. But I speak from a physics standpoint, not from experience
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Old Jun 26, 2007, 05:07 PM
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youll be surprised, those pro woodies can handle about 3200RPM as hard as you want. check out my SCHC thread and see the latest video (jason 3d) wood blades dont auto too well, i couldn't do it as you watch in the video at the end, i tip it alittle.

autos are way easier with vblades, i guarantee.
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Old Jun 26, 2007, 06:45 PM
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Sydney, Oz.
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I started doing them from much lower. I hovered about a foot off the ground and hit throttle hold there. Then just eased the pitch up and settled it on nicely. That way you work out the 'flare' part first.
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Old Jun 26, 2007, 07:00 PM
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West Dundee, Il.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybt
and I'm pretty sure Align carbons and CF blades are not the same. Align carbon blades are heavy as hell and actually made of plastic with a CF rod in them and weight added to the tips... CF blades will likely be even lighter than your woodies... which poses a potential problem for doing autos (less angular momentum). They will probably be better powered flying blades (less drag, higher speed, lighter, etc.), however. But I speak from a physics standpoint, not from experience
Interesting! I never knew that Align Carbons were not C/F. Thanks for the info...

Quote:
Originally Posted by driftinsequence
those pro woodies can handle about 3200RPM as hard as you want.
Well I guess its time for a new pinion

Quote:
Originally Posted by HPSOV
I started doing them from much lower. I hovered about a foot off the ground and hit throttle hold there. Then just eased the pitch up and settled it on nicely. That way you work out the 'flare' part first.
Yeah, Im doing that now, but I guess I can work on getting higher from there.

Thanks again for the info guys! This is great stuff!!
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Old Jun 30, 2007, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybt
I hope i'm not preaching to the choir here, but this stuff has taken me forever to figure out... and I'm pretty sure Align carbons and CF blades are not the same. Align carbon blades are heavy as hell and actually made of plastic with a CF rod in them and weight added to the tips... CF blades will likely be even lighter than your woodies... which poses a potential problem for doing autos (less angular momentum). They will probably be better powered flying blades (less drag, higher speed, lighter, etc.), however. But I speak from a physics standpoint, not from experience
Incorrect... you are talking about the old 3K carbons. Align came out with real CF blades a few months ago and they ROCK. They are 325mm white with a black stripe and are real CF blades. Some of the best I have used!

These are what I am using
http://www.align.com.tw/shop/product...oducts_id=1532

Bob

Bob
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Old Jun 30, 2007, 11:25 AM
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USA, CA, Moreno Valley
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And the new align blades are durable too.I just found that out an hour ago.
Piro flip-BAD
Blades-GOOD
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Old Jun 30, 2007, 12:18 PM
Rave heaven
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Joined Nov 2006
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Yea, the old align blades are made from like injected carbon. New ones are real.


Later
Eric
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