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Old Dec 20, 2012, 04:44 AM
Just shut up and build!
Sri Lanka
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Micro RTP in racetrack pattern?

After trying to imagine micro RC flight in the limited area that I have available, and considering the costs involved, I am beginning to explore the area of RTP and control line flying especially miro RTP.

Some discussion and links:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175693

http://www.modelflying.co.uk/forums/...p?th=34517&p=1

Micro servos are available as wll for low cost:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...tSortOrder=asc

I have some control line flying experience (Cox 0.049 model) . Seeing the control line models on You Tube - quite impressive, and fast, a lot of zooming and diving is possible, and the model is really flying.

Flying round and round in circles is not a very nice option, however if the circuit can be flattenned to a racetrack pattern which many RC models fly in any case, I think it would be very entertaining.

Control would be through a RC transmitter type box with stick controls, but signals as well as power will be carried though analogue wire to the throttle, elevators and maybe landing gear and ailerons.

So here goes - the start of an ambitious project to create a flying model system that will fly in confined spaces and
be affordable and realistic as well.

Comments?
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 06:07 AM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
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Interesting!

As children, my brother and I received a Christmas gift in the early 70's of a really cool toy by Mattel, called the Dareplane Stunter. It was a hoot, but did not last too long.

Similar concept.

Ken

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Old Dec 20, 2012, 06:09 AM
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What size area do you want to accomplish this goal in? Seems like the toughest part will be getting the line to move to each end of the RTP. This leads to another question, which is, how much of an RTP are you looking for? One of the issues in control line flying is the weight and drag of the lines. This is overcome by the centrifugal force generated by the models speed keeping line tension. If you are flying two half circles with straight lines in between, then position of the line at center has to lead the model or the model will fly towards the lines. The carrier model guys overcome this a bit since they get pretty slow by having the lines slide aft at the wing tip pointing the model away from the line origin, thereby keeping tension. They also have the outboard wing trimmed to fly a bit banked to outside the circuit. Unless you are willing to go this route, it is not likely that you will accomplish your goal.

Maybe an elipptical pattern would be more achievable. However then you will experience change in speed at the end of the ellipse.

Just thinking out loud,
Ken
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 09:36 AM
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What's wrong with flying in circles ? It works for control liners and they manage team racing, stunt, speed, combat etc....all basically in circular flight.

You too could do all of those indoors with micro RTP though it would be a lot easier to just put power through the lines and use a 2.4GHz micro RX/TX for the controls. It would probably be easier still to use an onboard battery so the RTP line was just a tether.

Steve
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 12:52 PM
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this is as close as your Nearest Walmart

An oval shaped, "racetrack" pattern is problematic, even with RC, because of the transitions from turning to straight flight and the "intelligent" center mounting that would be required.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 04:58 PM
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[QUOTE=UNGN;23578487]this is as close as your Nearest Walmart]


Do they have Walmarts in Sri Lanka
TODD
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 06:41 PM
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[QUOTE=I R Irv;23580429]
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNGN View Post
this is as close as your Nearest Walmart]


Do they have Walmarts in Sri Lanka
TODD
If they don't they soon will. One of my close friends runs Walmart's disrtibution for their stores in Africa.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 06:47 PM
Just shut up and build!
Sri Lanka
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Ken

5 replies already! Ken, what other details do youhave about your model? How long were the lines, was there elevator control, and what was the point of failure?
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 06:48 PM
Just shut up and build!
Sri Lanka
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What's wrong with flying in circles? Well that is the basic question here. In the 80s I used to fly a control line Cox PT 19, in a school aeromodelling club, also some which was a lot of fun. Starting the motor was the main problem, but otherwise when it started flying it was great. With control line of course you turn with the plane, but that was not a problem, I remember slow landing when the engine cut, good days when I kept the model under control, and the 'uh-oh' moments when I flew the model too high, into the wind, lost tension on the lines and it came crashing down. Flying in circles bored me then, and I ended up walking the field to keep my model going somewhere. RTP is different, and I have never tried it, however I has seen videos on you tube, and I hesitate to even try a RTP because seeing a model whipping around in circles gives me a headache.

Racetrack pattern - is different, I am sure it has been done before. More some of its flight, the model will be following the path that an RC model will be flying, but tethered to make sure it does not hit anything.


I agree an elliptical track would be more practical, as far as keeping the tension in the wires. Will have to try an inital set up and see. Like control line, I could have the rudder set to rotate the plane out of the circle or ellipse.

But it must fly slowly, I do not like to see these things whirling around like a slinghsot.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 06:55 PM
Just shut up and build!
Sri Lanka
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No Walmarts here, however. Your prices are very high - 50 - 80 dollars - we can buy a microhelicopter over here for that, or there is an expert here "Mr Excel" right on these RC groups who converts rc mini helicopter components to an RC plane, for around that price.

I saw the videos for the Walmart product - nice, but the usual slingshot type flight is the order of the day, whizzing around why can't they make a long rail, attach the tower on a sliding trolley to that, add aileron control, slow the thing down, make it bigger all round (20 inch models ) and you have a world winner.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 07:09 PM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knlever View Post
Ken

5 replies already! Ken, what other details do youhave about your model? How long were the lines, was there elevator control, and what was the point of failure?
If you have an example of RTP being done, I sure would love to see it.

I, like yourself, flew alot of .049 control line models and some bigger stuff as well. Usually the .049 stuff was flown on 30 ft. dacron lines. The bigger birds were on 60 ft. steel cable.

The Dareplane Stunter was on a 4 ft. cable. The propeller was powered by a motor in the center pylon connected to the plane through a flexible cable inside a sleeve. The elevator control was rigged to the sleeve and pushing or pulling on the sleeve at the pylon actuated the elevator. This was strictly flying in circles. The plane was rather fragile though. With the experience I have now, I would have been able to repair it and make it even better.

Ken
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 07:18 PM
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I think the Flyline RC planes are a good step in between rc and control line. They need some tweeking for sure. That will happen when the price comes down after Christmas. Then we won't be able to find them when someone mods the heckouta them and they are all the rage here!
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 07:27 PM
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Or someone takes a parkzone RTF and clips it to a line.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knlever View Post
No Walmarts here, however. Your prices are very high - 50 - 80 dollars - we can buy a microhelicopter over here for that, or there is an expert here "Mr Excel" right on these RC groups who converts rc mini helicopter components to an RC plane, for around that price.

I saw the videos for the Walmart product - nice, but the usual slingshot type flight is the order of the day, whizzing around why can't they make a long rail, attach the tower on a sliding trolley to that, add aileron control, slow the thing down, make it bigger all round (20 inch models ) and you have a world winner.
What you are proposing is actually extremely hard to pull off in reality. The "trolley" would need to be nearly weightless and frictionless, unless it itself is powered and somehow intelligently knows where the airplane is in along the race track.

The aiplane has to lift the String and anything that rises or falls with the plane (ie the trolley) and it has to this via string.

Unless you have a patentable idea do overcome these issues, I'd be content with circles.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 09:14 PM
"Unnecessary Necessity"
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The old style RTP was a bit limited, but r/c assist is fun with modern micro equipment:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...&highlight=rtp
The Spektrum ar6400 is ideal for that (throttle&elevator)ln a similar way as Flyline RC, a non circular pattern would be overly complicated and add little. There is some nice RTP examples here:
http://www.modelflying.co.uk/forums/...p?th=34517&p=1
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