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Old Jul 31, 2010, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Rafa's CB100 View Post
Hi Guys,

I'm ahead of a curve for some of you, and behind a curve for some of you.

What I mean by that is that I've got my 4F200 already (from the very last of the first batch that Wow had), but I'm still getting ready to fly it, as I'm about to make the transition from FP to CP.

I've been flying a few CB100s since November, so here we go. I have sought advice from a few trusted RCG members, and have learned lots in the past few weeks, both about CP and the 2801 Pro (as opposed to the 2802 I've been flying with thus far).

Among the good advice I received, I was directed to the Finless Bob vidoes on HeliFreak, they were very well worth the time to me. I was also given some baseline D/R and Expo numbers for a newbie: D/R 60-70% (60% easier), expo 30-45% (45% easier).

The heli arrived Thursday, looks awesome. I've been chewing away at the heli's and the 2801 Pro manuals. I just finished reading them, and I've also just finished writing down all of the original settings in the tx. I've also taken a picture of the settings on the rx before I change anything. I then set all of the D/R to 60%, and all of the expo to 45%--what the heck, I'm a complete CP newb!

The 2801 manual was not as intimidating (illogical) as I had heard, probably because this heli is 2801 capable, and I'm not having to mess with the 'mode switching for curves' thing that I keep reading about in the original 'Walkera 3-axis gyro' thread.

I have looked her over as carefully as I know how, performed a screw check, and only had to slightly snug two! Jonathan had said that they and Dkfuji had found loose balls at the swash, but mine were tight (Wow tested my heli, of course).

The only weird thing I see is that one of the blade grips has a very slight amount of axial play. It is slight, but the other two have no play at all. At first, I thought, "Ah Ha! I found a loose screw!", but the screw that secures it to it's axle is tight. I don't think it's a problem, but an observation. I'd like to know what other have experienced with regards to this.

The battery is charging now, and my cameraman is coming in a few hours. I plan on disconnecting the motor to check servo travels and also checking CG with that funky little tool before I try to lift-off, but other than that, is there any last-minute advice that anyone wants to give me?

Rafa
Rafa, how the flight go.
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Old Jul 31, 2010, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Alwayscrash View Post
Setting all BALANCE-delay, ELEV-gyro & AIL-gyro on RX all the way to negative sign will make heli very stable and can be flown around backyard . 3axis gyro only take effect when throtle is high enough (about 1/3),thing will make heli too nervous to fly around narrow space.When going outdoor just turn them back to initial spot, ie: center. I'm not an expert pilot but love to fly around indoor and these settings do give me a lot of ease to fly it.
Also i've notice that heli often have tendence to bank-right when lift off if throtle input is too slow so changing to a wider landing skid will help a lot for tip-over symptom.
Just put here some of my experiences for share, correct me if i'm wrong!
my 2 cents,
Acrash
AC
As far as stability what would you compare it to. I have a B400, SR, Trex 250, 4G6S. I have one on order with John. Dont want to crash with no parts in sight.

You said it goes to the right on take off without enough thro. Just wondering if you leveled the swash. And how hard is this to work on.
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Old Jul 31, 2010, 07:58 PM
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OK looks like I will be the first to say I don't like the 3 blades for now and want Darryl's two blade conversion!
With 3 blades it will cost much more in a crash to repair, more things to setup, adjust, and balance.
Plus carbon fiber blades are going to tear up parts in a crash much more
than wood or foam blades would.

With the two blade conversion there are only two parts to buy instead of three. You can use wood blades which are cheap
and will do less damage to the heli in a crash. A two blade system is less to setup, balance, and is cheaper. Less weight also.

For cost reference:
Walkera 4F200 Parts
http://www.ehirobo.com/shop/index.php?cPath=82_482


I see this heli great for experienced pilots that won't crash much but expensive to repair for people just starting out or just starting to learn
3D who will crash it a lot while learning. So a two blade conversion would
be great to learn on with for low cost repairs and less parts to replace.

Tom
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Old Jul 31, 2010, 08:02 PM
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Well, honestly to say, i also own an TR250 SE and always have to go to soccer place to be able to flight it. With 4F200 set to max-axis-effect i can fly it around my backyard and sometimes need to ask my neighbor the permission to pick it up from his green-grass...It can be compared with a TR250 but less powerful & more more stable.
About banking , problem is solved,just make all 3 servo links having the same lenght and also checking all servo horn must be on same level.However, heli still likes to lean slightly right after take-off that's why i've change stock landing skid with a larger one.Seems all the 3 CF blades are quite heavy for it to go straight up when take off?!
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Old Jul 31, 2010, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Z View Post
OK looks like I will be the first to say I don't like the 3 blades for now and want Darryl's two blade conversion!Tom
Am I missing something here? If you bought a 3-bladed heli, then bought a bunch of stuff to regress it back to a 2 bladed flybarless heli, wouldn't you just end up with one of these ...................................

http://www.wowhobbies.com/walkera-v2...elicopter.aspx

??????????
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Old Jul 31, 2010, 08:40 PM
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Tom Z's Avatar
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Originally Posted by xviper View Post
Am I missing something here? If you bought a 3-bladed heli, then bought a bunch of stuff to regress it back to a 2 bladed flybarless heli, wouldn't you just end up with one of these ...................................

http://www.wowhobbies.com/walkera-v2...elicopter.aspx

??????????
Yep, the 4F200 3 blade is collective pitch and the v200d01
is fixed pitch.

Tom
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Old Jul 31, 2010, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by dkfuji View Post
As far as balancing the head goes, I spin the heli with no blades first to make sure the heli itself is smooth. Then add the tail blades and spin her up again and add tape until it is smooth. Then add the mainblades (after initial COG check and balance) and spin her up again at mid stick and check for vibs. At that point it is a guessing game to determine how much and which blade to add weight. I always start with adding tape to the center of the blades but there are times where it had to go a touch towards the root or tip to get it perfect.

On another note, I have completed test flights on one my mod'd 4F200's and initial tests were very good. It is solid in hover and FFF (no 3D yet) and comes in at AUW of 318g. Nice. Here are a couple of pics.

What do you guys think? Is anyone interested in the mod? Just trying to see if there is a want factor.

Darryl


Awesome Darryl, nice work!
I would want one.

Tom
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Old Jul 31, 2010, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Z View Post
Yep, the 4F200 3 blade is collective pitch and the v200d01
is fixed pitch.

Tom
OK, maybe he has a market for it then.
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Old Jul 31, 2010, 09:23 PM
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With the rate Walkera is releasing new helis I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a CP version of the V200 very shortly. They already have the V120D02 coming out next week, so I can't imagine it would take much to scale it up to the V200? If there is a demand then we'll probably see it happen very soon.

Dan
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Old Jul 31, 2010, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
With the rate Walkera is releasing new helis I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a CP version of the V200 very shortly. They already have the V120D02 coming out next week, so I can't imagine it would take much to scale it up to the V200? If there is a demand then we'll probably see it happen very soon.

Dan
Or scale it down to a V100D02.......just kidding
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Old Jul 31, 2010, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravo47 View Post
Hi Rafa

If transitioning from CB100 to CP, the best advice I could give you is to add some training gear to your 4F200. Start from the beginning by manuevering your CP on the ground keeping the tail in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaterPin View Post
Rafa, how the flight go.
Oh yeah, training gear. I meant to do that, but I knew I had forgotten something.

Well, it's not nearly as pretty as I had hoped, and I learned some very valuable lessons, but here's my first few moments of CP and 4F200. Next time, I'll go to an open field with the training gear installed. Luckily, the LHS has E-Flite stuff that is generic enough to fit.

Rafa's very first collective-pitch flight with his new Walkera 4F200 from Wowhobbies.com (2 min 37 sec)


Rafa's first collective pitch parts break with his new Walkera 4F200 from Wowhobbies.com! (0 min 51 sec)


The little crash at the end of the second video did do a bit of damage. The blades did strike the couch and they have a tiny bit of damage. One of the linkage rods to one of the blade controllers got pulled, and stripped the plastic on one end, and flew off the heli on the other end. I found the missing piece, and 2-part epoxied the stripped link. I went to the LHS to see if I could cross reference something, but no luck directly--E-Flite balls and links a bit larger. I'll remeasure and adjust the rods, maybe try again tomorrow now that I've got my training gear mounted.

I did check CG before the flight, and the heli was a bit tail heavy. I wasn't quite sure how to adjust the CG, other than adding weight to the nose. I had also noticed that the elevator trim was a bit forward to start with--presumably from the Wow test flight. What's the best way to play with CG on something like this? I can't just slide the battery like my little CB100. Thanks, here we go,

Rafa
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Old Jul 31, 2010, 10:41 PM
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Joined Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwayscrash View Post
Setting all BALANCE-delay, ELEV-gyro & AIL-gyro on RX all the way to negative sign will make heli very stable and can be flown around backyard . 3axis gyro only take effect when throtle is high enough (about 1/3),thing will make heli too nervous to fly around narrow space.When going outdoor just turn them back to initial spot, ie: center. I'm not an expert pilot but love to fly around indoor and these settings do give me a lot of ease to fly it.
Also i've notice that heli often have tendence to bank-right when lift off if throtle input is too slow so changing to a wider landing skid will help a lot for tip-over symptom.
Just put here some of my experiences for share, correct me if i'm wrong!
my 2 cents,
Acrash
As my last post showed, I had thought that I might at least be able to hover this thing inside. I realize that it is many times larger than my CB100, but I can do figure 8s and loops in this same room with it.

If I was to try the settings listed in your picture, I have a question about your D/R and Expo settings. Are you using any D/R or Expo, and if so, how much?

Another way to ask the question would be this: If I was to try your rx settings, should I keep my D/R and Expo 'newbie-ized', or take them back to stock settings? Thanks,

Rafa
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Old Aug 01, 2010, 12:30 AM
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I fly my 4G6 in a room about that size and even it is scary. (a 4G6 is bigger then a CB100 but smaller then your 4F200) You really should take that thing outside. You might eventually get comfortable enough with it to be able to hover it around inside, but you need to give yourself some more space when you're first starting out so you can get a feel for it.

Dan
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Old Aug 01, 2010, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by NaterPin View Post
Or scale it down to a V100D02.......just kidding
That would be awesome!

Dan
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Old Aug 01, 2010, 01:56 AM
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Sorry Rafa, but I had a big grin on my face as soon as I saw that CP heli sitting on your lounge room map ready for its maiden flight It was never going to end good. Years ago I was tinkering with a Walkera 22E in my living room, and although I did not attempt to lift off, it scared the crap out of everybody when it threw a blade and parts went flying all through the house. Luckily nobody was injured. CP heli's are for outdoors mate

One thing worth noting from that video though is that if a novice pilot can actually lift off into a hover, on a maiden CP flight, in a small space like that with all that air turbulance bouncing off the furniture, then the 4F200 must be one of the easiest CP's yet to learn to hover anyhow. Forward flight may be a bit more tricky.

Thx for the video
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