SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Thread Tools
Old Mar 27, 2015, 11:00 AM
flohio117 is offline
Find More Posts by flohio117
DroneWorksUSA.net
flohio117's Avatar
United States, TN, Clarksville
Joined Dec 2011
3,827 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertstalker View Post
Its the same chemistry, just that our "lipos" are designed for higher power output, this naturally makes them heavier for the same capacity.

The manufacturing process is not quite as good, hence the cheaper prices.
Where did you see that there the same chemistry??? Lithium ion is not a lithium polymer battery. They are made completely differently and are composed of different ingredients. There are many high quality lipos made (tatu, thunder power, max amps, etc) and they are not lithium ion by any means. 2 different chemical constructions not the same.

Lithium ion can be drained down to 2.5v per cell safely (if memory serves me correct) that is way below a lithium polymer safe discharge voltage of 3.3v. Lithium ion have much higher density but very low discharge rate. Max usually 2c but from my testing it's more along 1.5c. They are also able to stay completely charged and do not degrade from it like lithium polymer.

Lithium polymer high discharge rate but lower density when comparing same size/weight packs to lithium ion. They also can not Stay fully charged long before the chemicals start degrading the battery. Typically I've found a lithium polymer battery can actually only produce about half the C rating that is displayed on the battery. Example if it's a 5000mah 25c pack it would not do 125 amps continously It would actually only be able to discharge continuously at around 12.5c Or 62.5 Amps. Half the time they can barely do that. I've tested many brands and it has carried over in every brand no matter how expensive.

In short lithium polymer and lithium ion are 2x completely different batteries that are capable of different tasks.
flohio117 is offline Find More Posts by flohio117
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Mar 27, 2015, 04:32 PM
Jon58 is offline
Find More Posts by Jon58
Registered User
United States, OR, Medford
Joined Sep 2011
168 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasoneal View Post
Looking for anyone with experience on these new BOLT batteries.

I've just finished a new EDF scratch build (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=258) which basically I designed around the Nanotech 4s 2650 35-70c battery.

When I flew today, mostly flat-out for the full flight for the first time, when I landed my battery was extremely puffed. It was about a 3 1/2 minute flight, and the battery was pretty well exhausted. After it cooled for an hour or so, individual cells were around the 3.5 volt range.

Anyway, most 4s batteries out there are much "fatter", which simply won't fit my bird. The BOLT 2800 4s has almost the same dimensions as the Nanotech. At twice the price, I would hope its a substantially better battery. But can anyway tell me if the BOLT battery would solve my puffing issue? Obviously with the higher voltage, it could boost my performance a bit too... but if I continue to experience puffing like I just did today, it will litteraly split my fuselage open. (Battery sits on its "edge" in the fuselage, with not a lot of extra room.)

The current battery, looks like it drained about 2000 ma in those 3 1/2 minutes, so that should have been significantly less drain than the 35c constant rating... The battery is a couple years old, but only has about 12-15 cycles on it. Its never been "puffed" before, but it has gone down to its original size after cooling.

Thanks in advance for any perspectives.

Paul
Off topic and to address Paul.

I also use Nano Tech batteries as well as other brands.

My several year old but not many cycles 2200 mah Nano Tech 25-50 C batteries I estimate have around 1800 mah remaining capacity. The most demanding device I run on these is a Blade 450 X which with my flying and my setup draws an average of 16.5 amps or 7C (based on new, not current capacity). They come back warm, but not hot and not puffed. My timer is set to 4 minutes and I put back around 1183 mah when charging. 1183 out brings them down to around 3.81 volts per cell after resting. All the cells are nearly perfectly matched for capacity and balance perfectly on a PL6. The same PL6 shows IR average around 4.2 per cell.

Why am I saying all this? Well, it is commonly accepted that marketing and not engineering determines "C" rating. It is further accepted that one should divide advertised C rating by half. Based on my experience, Nano Tech battery C rating should be reduced by 2/3 ? Maybe a little more than 2/3?

If I needed more than 7-9 C sustained, I think I would use the 45-90 C Nano Tech. If I needed a lot more than 7-9 C sustained, I'm not sure. Perhaps revolectrix?

My EFLITE Apprentice S flown in the pattern pulls about 100 mah per minute. Twelve minutes pulls 1200 mah from the 2200 mah Nano Tech, or about 3C. 3C seems just about right for these batteries.

For more information read the battery testing thread of MSCGUY.
Jon58 is offline Find More Posts by Jon58
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 27, 2015, 04:40 PM
Jon58 is offline
Find More Posts by Jon58
Registered User
United States, OR, Medford
Joined Sep 2011
168 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by flohio117 View Post

In short lithium polymer and lithium ion are 2x completely different batteries that are capable of different tasks.
This may shed some more light. It appears lithium polymer is a sub category of lithium ion?

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a..._ideal_battery
Jon58 is offline Find More Posts by Jon58
Last edited by Jon58; Mar 27, 2015 at 04:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 27, 2015, 09:40 PM
flohio117 is offline
Find More Posts by flohio117
DroneWorksUSA.net
flohio117's Avatar
United States, TN, Clarksville
Joined Dec 2011
3,827 Posts
It's not really a sub category as much as its a different battery. A sub category would be like "Nano-tech " here are types of lithium ion batteries :http://lithiuminvestingnews.com/9196...eries-6-types/
flohio117 is offline Find More Posts by flohio117
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 27, 2015, 10:01 PM
Jon58 is offline
Find More Posts by Jon58
Registered User
United States, OR, Medford
Joined Sep 2011
168 Posts
Nano Tech brand is a sub category of Turnigy brand. All Nano Tech batteries are Turnigy. Not all Turnigy batteries are Nano Tech.

Similarly all "LiPo" batteries are lithium ion batteries. Not all lithium ion batteries are so called "LiPo" batteries.

Your link above describes six different chemical compositions, which I think are all considered lithium ion batteries. Included as a sub category of these chemical compositions making up different lithium ion batteries are so called LiPo batteries.

Isn't "LiPo" just a lithium ion battery engineered and manufactured for a different purpose than most of the other lithium ion batteries?

I ask because I often see listed as a common lithium battery fallacy the idea that "LiPo" is somehow not a lithium ion battery. When I saw your original post, I considered that you were communicating this fallacy.
Jon58 is offline Find More Posts by Jon58
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 28, 2015, 03:05 AM
flohio117 is offline
Find More Posts by flohio117
DroneWorksUSA.net
flohio117's Avatar
United States, TN, Clarksville
Joined Dec 2011
3,827 Posts
A lithium ion battery is not a lithium pymer battery. They are made 2 completely different ways. Nano-tech isn't just the turnigy brand it refers to the nano technology used in That type of lipo. Not all lipos are nano tech.therefore nano tech is a sub category of a lipo. If you read around on different websites or even look at the physical aspects you will see lithium ion and lithium polymer are as much different as they are alike. Either way this thread is getting way off topic. There are plenty of lithium ion threads on here already. Let's try and keep this about these bolt batteries that still seem very vague.
flohio117 is offline Find More Posts by flohio117
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 03, 2015, 04:33 PM
Jinkslynx is online now
Find More Posts by Jinkslynx
Registered User
Norway
Joined Jan 2008
93 Posts
Gerd Giese have done some brutal discharge tests of this battery...55c (German)

http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...-an-.../page19
Jinkslynx is online now Find More Posts by Jinkslynx
Reply With Quote


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sold Futaba SUPER T9CHP 9- Channel Transmitter, & NEW Turnigy LI-PO TX Battery Pack LADYHAWK13 Aircraft - General - Radio Equipment (FS/W) 0 May 17, 2014 04:52 PM
For Sale AGA POWER 5200Mah / 2S / 30C Hard Case Car Truck Li-Po Battery Pack Deans Ultra Giant_Scale_Gas Cars - Cars and Parts (FS/W) 0 Mar 12, 2014 07:40 PM
Sold DJI Phantom Battery - Turnigy 2200 mAh Battery Pack 11.1v 3s dotster77 Aircraft - Electric - Batteries & Chargers (FS/W) 2 Feb 19, 2014 03:24 PM
Sold BRAND NEW Turnigy 2200mah 3s 25c battery packs. have 3 of them jasper7821 Aircraft - Electric - Batteries & Chargers (FS/W) 2 Nov 06, 2013 12:23 PM
For Sale Turnigy 9.6v 2000mah NiMH battery packs + exras Stradawhovious Aircraft - Electric - Batteries & Chargers (FS/W) 0 Oct 20, 2013 11:20 AM