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Old Oct 14, 2012, 06:54 PM
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I'm not sure the Tarot grips will fit. They just have a 2mm threaded hole for the pitch control arms, so there's a good probability that they will fit. If you want to try them call Tarot RC. They're in San Diego. They may be able to answer the question.
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by clearprop88 View Post
I'm not sure the Tarot grips will fit. They just have a 2mm threaded hole for the pitch control arms, so there's a good probability that they will fit. If you want to try them call Tarot RC. They're in San Diego. They may be able to answer the question.
Well i think they clone Align. So i think the Align/Tarot tail shaft is basically the same for the belt drive. So I'd bet it will fit. I already ordered replacements though.

BTW, do you guys have any play in your tail grips on the shaft? just wondering. because looking at this new heli. The grips seem secure and installed properly but there is maybe a 1mm gap where they can kind of slide around. Almost like i left a washer out. I don't want to break it down if you guys can confirm some play in yours as well?
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 07:27 PM
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I have a little play , i took them apart before and found out everything was ok.
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
I have a little play , i took them apart before and found out everything was ok.
Yeah, it's weird. There was a little gap on both of them. I looked at the pictures i took from assembly. There is no washer on the blade grip mounting screw. I checked my old v450, it also does not have a washer. The screw locks down on the inside race with no washer present.



So, i went ahead and took them off and put little washers on there from my 4f200's main rotor blade grips. Now they are nice and firm like my older v450 was before it threw a grip! Very strange how both were checked, and assembled the same way but the newer one had play on both sides. Perhaps the "new" tail shafts are longer and that is what i received. Never can tell anymore. Thanks for the input though biggie.





If your ever working at your bench and look up and see This:



YOUR IN TOO DEEP!!! THERE IS NO RETURN!!!
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 12:34 AM
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V450 Canopy Liner Experiment!

After 2 of my friends broke their smart phone screens. While i have dropped mine dozens of times without breaking mine. I started to wonder why my phone, being the same exact phone was so much more resilient. I started asking them about how they protected their phone. The irony is BOTH use a very expensive otter box and BOTH broke their screen inside the otter box. This was fascinating to me because i was using a $8 rubber jacket thing. It just kind of griped over the back of the phone. I'm sure this rubber material absorbed some of the impacts. But there is no way that was the only thing that saved me! The one guy used a screen protector, that was actually still attached to the shattered screen. The other was using no screen protector. Where as i on the other hand was using a $20 military grade Invisishield screen protector. Anyone who has ever used one of these knows they are thicker, denser, and nearly rubber like in consistency. I'm positive that rubber like coating being tightly sealed against the glass was enough to absorb and nullify most impact shockwaves. Not only that but the rubber sticking to the glass also strengthens it just by being there. kind of like how two pieces of paper can be that much harder to fold than one.

Anyway, i decided it's time to try and mimic that result with my Walkera V450D01. First rubber like coating experiment will/has been applied. I am trying this spray on rubber coating. The particular brand i used was called plasti-dip




The spray dries just like rubber and sticks like paint. Unfortunately it kind of messed up the paint i put on the outside of the canopy. So you should definately coat the inside first. Clean the outside with alcohol to remove any overspray before it dries. Then paint the outside after allowing the plasti-dip to dry overnight. Here is what it looks like, at least for this one that was already painted. If this works out, it will hopefully beat lining the inside with packing tape. Which is what i used to do to prevent it from cracking and splitting so easily.




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Old Oct 15, 2012, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Well i think they clone Align. So i think the Align/Tarot tail shaft is basically the same for the belt drive. So I'd bet it will fit. I already ordered replacements though.

BTW, do you guys have any play in your tail grips on the shaft? just wondering. because looking at this new heli. The grips seem secure and installed properly but there is maybe a 1mm gap where they can kind of slide around. Almost like i left a washer out. I don't want to break it down if you guys can confirm some play in yours as well?
Mine have no play, rotationaly they are free and have no radial or axial play.
Because of your issue I have started oiling the grips by letting oil wick into the grip at the root end with the hopes that centrifugal force will push the oil through the bearing stack up. We will see.

Viking
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
V450 Canopy Liner Experiment!

After 2 of my friends broke their smart phone screens. While i have dropped mine dozens of times without breaking mine. I started to wonder why my phone, being the same exact phone was so much more resilient. I started asking them about how they protected their phone. The irony is BOTH use a very expensive otter box and BOTH broke their screen inside the otter box. This was fascinating to me because i was using a $8 rubber jacket thing. It just kind of griped over the back of the phone. I'm sure this rubber material absorbed some of the impacts. But there is no way that was the only thing that saved me! The one guy used a screen protector, that was actually still attached to the shattered screen. The other was using no screen protector. Where as i on the other hand was using a $20 military grade Invisishield screen protector. Anyone who has ever used one of these knows they are thicker, denser, and nearly rubber like in consistency. I'm positive that rubber like coating being tightly sealed against the glass was enough to absorb and nullify most impact shockwaves. Not only that but the rubber sticking to the glass also strengthens it just by being there. kind of like how two pieces of paper can be that much harder to fold than one.

Anyway, i decided it's time to try and mimic that result with my Walkera V450D01. First rubber like coating experiment will/has been applied. I am trying this spray on rubber coating. The particular brand i used was called plasti-dip




The spray dries just like rubber and sticks like paint. Unfortunately it kind of messed up the paint i put on the outside of the canopy. So you should definately coat the inside first. Clean the outside with alcohol to remove any overspray before it dries. Then paint the outside after allowing the plasti-dip to dry overnight. Here is what it looks like, at least for this one that was already painted. If this works out, it will hopefully beat lining the inside with packing tape. Which is what i used to do to prevent it from cracking and splitting so easily.




Sounds interesting but a tad heavy. Did you by chance weigh the canopy before and after to see the differance? I like the idea though.
I need to spray my whole helicopter

Viking
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
Sounds interesting but a tad heavy. Did you by chance weigh the canopy before and after to see the differance? I like the idea though.
I need to spray my whole helicopter

Viking
I didn't weigh it. But i can later to see what it weights now compared to a stock canopy. Also this stuff is paintable, so if you took your time you might be able to put it on the outside instead. But i think it will leave an odd texture. Probably the most protection though.



BTW i also added a post to by build log about removing the tail rotor hub after globing it with thread lock the way i do. That much thread lock and removing it by hand, even with heat can be a task.
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
Mine have no play, rotationaly they are free and have no radial or axial play.
Because of your issue I have started oiling the grips by letting oil wick into the grip at the root end with the hopes that centrifugal force will push the oil through the bearing stack up. We will see.

Viking
Yes, i was having axial play. But i added some washers to the mounting screw and that took care of it. But i've never had to do it before and the previous heli didn't use them The spare parts didn't come with them. I think it just a strange parts change or i got a tail hub that was cut 1mm longer on both sides or something. But it's fixed now.
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 04:27 PM
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Ice 50 and Throttle 2 on the 2702

I got to thinking about throttle 2 today on the 2702 and played around with settings.
This is what I found out.
I knew I couldn't set end points on the Ice in Throttle 1 and that I had to do it in Throttle 2. None of the Ice programing settings are allowed on the 2702 in throttle 1 position.
In the past I had always set it up in throttle 2 position and then swapped back to position 1.
What I noticed today but didn't pick up on before was that after setting up the end points I only had to move the throttle 1 % to get motor rotation at the bottom end in throttle 2, which was what I expected but after changing the Ice back to throttle 1 the end points that were set up earlier were gone. It would take about 11% of throttle movement off the bottom to spin the motor.
I called Phoenix about it and explained what I was seeing and they said stick with throttle 2 position as it will respond better with the Ice 50. It will also in their opionion perform better in auto rotation.
I did put a couple flights on it tonight in throttle two position with good results (no auto's though). Can't say it was that different from throttle 1 but I know for a fact I have more throttle available.

Anyone else with the Ice 50 shed some light on this?
Love the govener!

Viking
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
I got to thinking about throttle 2 today on the 2702 and played around with settings.
This is what I found out.
I knew I couldn't set end points on the Ice in Throttle 1 and that I had to do it in Throttle 2. None of the Ice programing settings are allowed on the 2702 in throttle 1 position.
In the past I had always set it up in throttle 2 position and then swapped back to position 1.
What I noticed today but didn't pick up on before was that after setting up the end points I only had to move the throttle 1 % to get motor rotation at the bottom end in throttle 2, which was what I expected but after changing the Ice back to throttle 1 the end points that were set up earlier were gone. It would take about 11% of throttle movement off the bottom to spin the motor.
I called Phoenix about it and explained what I was seeing and they said stick with throttle 2 position as it will respond better with the Ice 50. It will also in their opionion perform better in auto rotation.
I did put a couple flights on it tonight in throttle two position with good results (no auto's though). Can't say it was that different from throttle 1 but I know for a fact I have more throttle available.

Anyone else with the Ice 50 shed some light on this?
Love the govener!

Viking
Well, if you remember. I recently came to this conclusion as well. I don't think i have mentioned it but since installing the first new RX on my old heli i have been flying using the throttle 2 port full time with no issues and i MUCH prefer the throttle response without a governor. With a governor you may not notice the smoother higher resolution feel to the throttle because it does not rev the throt. But the throttle 2 port is where I will now always suggest to plug the ESC in if it's not the stock ESC. It's also more convenient for when i want to program the ESC. I don't have to fuss with wires and worry about wearing out a lead or something playing with it. You just reminded me i need to edit my build log with this info.


Now let me just tell you how to "fool" the 2702V into throttle end point programming using the first throttle port. This works for my two different model Hobbywing speed controllers. I'm not sure of the method used to program end points on the Castle Ice. For the HW ESC you just need to leave the throttle in the UP position while binding, wait for indicator then move the throttle down. Though there is no reason to do this ever. But i think it's the same for the ICE? If it's not than this info will only pertain to Hobbywing and maybe some other brand ESC. But again. It's never going to be needed unless your throttle 2 port is broken.

Please be safe and remove your blades or plug the motor in reverse so it will not be able to spin anything but the main gear. Having it plugged in may effect the following, but i am unsure.

First bind up your heli like you would to fly it, with the throttle DOWN, then unplug. For my HW ESC, this step seems to help the ESC recognize the down point's exact position on the TX. Though that could be all in my head. Then put the throttle stick UP and turn on the throttle hold switch. The next part has to be timed pretty close. As soon as the heli starts to bob the swash you need to flip off the throttle hold switch. If done correctly the ESC should enter throttle end point programming mode and then subsequently programming mode if you wait long enough. You should be able to set a proper throttle end point for the throttle 1 threshold. If you check your data logging on each port you will have different numbers. Heliflyer711 did this at one point but i can't find that post.
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 08:53 PM
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Hey, can one of you guys with the "New" V450 tell me something about the rotor head please? The new rotor cap/stopper cap. Do the ball linkages have room now to move up under the cap? Previously the ball links would hit the cap in a crash, usually ripping out the threads and everything (you think it's T6? /shrug *iunnuh*)

Anyway, i was wondering if the new bigger cap was to cover them and hit inside. Then i realized, OH YEAH. DUH, they made the blade links longer, haha. So i bet they will tap right on the edge of the cap if you took the pitch link off right?
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Well, if you remember. I recently came to this conclusion as well. I don't think i have mentioned it but since installing the first new RX on my old heli i have been flying using the throttle 2 port full time with no issues and i MUCH prefer the throttle response without a governor. With a governor you may not notice the smoother higher resolution feel to the throttle because it does not rev the throt. But the throttle 2 port is where I will now always suggest to plug the ESC in if it's not the stock ESC. It's also more convenient for when i want to program the ESC. I don't have to fuss with wires and worry about wearing out a lead or something playing with it. You just reminded me i need to edit my build log with this info.

Now let me just tell you how to "fool" the 2702V into throttle end point programming using the first throttle port. This works for my two different model Hobbywing speed controllers. I'm not sure of the method used to program end points on the Castle Ice. For the HW ESC you just need to leave the throttle in the UP position while binding, wait for indicator then move the throttle down. Though there is no reason to do this ever. But i think it's the same for the ICE? If it's not than this info will only pertain to Hobbywing and maybe some other brand ESC. But again. It's never going to be needed unless your throttle 2 port is broken.

Please be safe and remove your blades or plug the motor in reverse so it will not be able to spin anything but the main gear. Having it plugged in may effect the following, but i am unsure.

First bind up your heli like you would to fly it, with the throttle DOWN, then unplug. For my HW ESC, this step seems to help the ESC recognize the down point's exact position on the TX. Though that could be all in my head. Then put the throttle stick UP and turn on the throttle hold switch. The next part has to be timed pretty close. As soon as the heli starts to bob the swash you need to flip off the throttle hold switch. If done correctly the ESC should enter throttle end point programming mode and then subsequently programming mode if you wait long enough. You should be able to set a proper throttle end point for the throttle 1 threshold. If you check your data logging on each port you will have different numbers. Heliflyer711 did this at one point but i can't find that post.

Help me to understanding your comment on "much prefering throttle response without a govenor". I prefer not having to work around or anticipate power changes by the motor during loading and unloading the rotor. The rotor RPM remains a contant through out the flight in govener mode, makes me a smoother pilot.

This is the process I had to go through to set the throttle end points with the Ice 50 and 2702 RX.
I have never been able to bind with any RX with the throttle full up, the TX will not allow it, it just beeps at you until you lower the throttle to the minimum position, then binding occurs. So from that I cannot set the end points on the Ice.
So...Connected to THRO2 port, I bind with the helicopter RX as normal, then disconnect the battery on the V450, place the throttle in the full up position, plug the battery back in, the RX will bind and the Ice will drop into programing mode allowing me to set the throttle end points. This procedure will only work in THRO2 position, it will not function in THRO1 position. And again if I set the throttle end points up in THRO2 and replug back to THROT1 position, I loose the end points set earlier. So I will hang tough with THRO2.

And yes you will end up with odd data points after setting them but when moving the stick the motor response will match sticks min and max positions very closely which is what we are after. I set the end points several times and got repeatability from one set up to another.

Viking
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 03:02 PM
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3 after work flights today , it felt so good and now that i have flown 2 fun flys , flying by myself seems easier, no pressure! Im working on fine tuning my moves ! Hell i still fly ugly circles, and my backwards flying sucks lol
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
Help me to understanding your comment on "much prefering throttle response without a govenor". I prefer not having to work around or anticipate power changes by the motor during loading and unloading the rotor. The rotor RPM remains a contant through out the flight in govener mode, makes me a smoother pilot.

This is the process I had to go through to set the throttle end points with the Ice 50 and 2702 RX.
I have never been able to bind with any RX with the throttle full up, the TX will not allow it, it just beeps at you until you lower the throttle to the minimum position, then binding occurs. So from that I cannot set the end points on the Ice.
So...Connected to THRO2 port, I bind with the helicopter RX as normal, then disconnect the battery on the V450, place the throttle in the full up position, plug the battery back in, the RX will bind and the Ice will drop into programing mode allowing me to set the throttle end points. This procedure will only work in THRO2 position, it will not function in THRO1 position. And again if I set the throttle end points up in THRO2 and replug back to THROT1 position, I loose the end points set earlier. So I will hang tough with THRO2.

And yes you will end up with odd data points after setting them but when moving the stick the motor response will match sticks min and max positions very closely which is what we are after. I set the end points several times and got repeatability from one set up to another.

Viking
I just said that in a stupid way. What i mean is. When not using a governor, i much prefer the throttle response in port 2, compared to when i set endpoints in port two and move the plug to port 1. The motor makes revving noises a lot more. The throttle is a lot more erratic and the resolution (precision of control) seems to be reduced. Basically, my observation is that there is no need to use Port one EVER if your using an upgraded ESC.
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