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Old Jul 06, 2013, 09:39 PM
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Nitroplanes Super Glider.

I decided to be the Guinea pig. Nitroplanes had a 10% off sale so I decided to take a risk.

WARNING. I have nearly completed the kit and was even considering a maiden flight, without the winglets, but the weather forced me to reconsider. While showing the "completed" plane to a friend we did some static testing for flex and were able to induce a resonant wing flutter by just wiggling the fuselage vertically. The thin plastic tube that carried the wing joiner through the fuselage is, on more careful examination, a joke. This results in a few inches of the wing joiner being effectively unsupported. This is hardly a deal breaker but I have not solved the problem yet and want to warn anyone who might begin at the start of this thread and get caught by surprise.

PROBLEM SOLVED. After much head scratching I decided to simply add a brass tube to support the wing joiner inside the fuse. I still think I might make up a metal wing joiner for aerobatic flying but I will have to see how it flies first. At least I'm not worried that the whole dang thing might shake itself apart the first time I let the nose drop.

I have been lusting after the FlyFly DG1000 2.6 meter glass/wood glider for quite some time. I think and hope that this is the same or comparable glider. Assuming that it's not complete junk I expect to have a big, beautiful, scale glider at a amazingly low price. If it's junk? It's junk. I can survive a bad decision.

As you can see; there's not a whole lot to go on. Two pictures and a list of specifications that may, or may not, be accurate. I plan on using a HobbyKing 2834, 1250kv, motor with a 40amp ESC and 11X6 prop. I have three of these motors and love them to death. This combo gives a calculated thrust of just about 1300grams and I hope to keep the weight under that. Even if my realized numbers are different I should still get a brisk climb with a 66gram motor and relatively light battery. I will use my favorite Turnigy 9018MG servos.

The plane isn't due until next Thursday but I work fast so I should have more info shortly after it arrives. Wish me luck!

http://www.nitroplanes.com/sugl2rarecos.html

Do I recommend this glider?

I will give it a qualified yes.

If you have building experience and if you have flown scale sailplanes, with their higher aspect ratio and wing loading, and if you get a reasonably straight fuselage then the "Super Glider" is a heck of a deal.

The stock winglets need to be replaced but, aside from that, I didn't make any major changes to the airframe. I am, however, going to upgrade the wing joiner for aerobatic flying or strong slope lift. I have performed a couple loops and a few rolls and quite a few high-speed pullouts from stalls and she has held together but I'm not comfortable pulling many "G's".

The controls are all effective. Using only ailerons for reflex, camber, and spoilerons provides positive control in all three axis but it does tend to "hunt" and weather vane a bit in yaw. Again, this is not unexpected with a scale sailplane and the relatively long nose moment in relation to the tail probably makes it a bit more noticeable.

As i fine tune it keeps getting better about dropping a wing in the stall but it won't tolerate flying too slow or sudden application of elevator. Or, perhaps, I'm just learning how it handles. It is very difficult to make flat turns within thermals but it really shines when flown more aggressively through banked turns. It indicates lift well and will thermal in fairly strong lift but it won't ever compete with a Radian in light conditions.

NOTE: I went with HXT 900 servos for the elevator and ailerons and reserved the 9018 for the rudder. I have also been using a 2200mah 25C Zippy Compact battery that weighs 160 grams. This provides a flying weight of 42 ounces.

UPDATE: 9/25/13

The HK 2834 with a 11X6 prop provides for adequate performance but runs a bit too hot even with extra cooling holes. So? I've upgraded to a NTM 3542 with a 12X7 prop. Better performance and runs nice and cool. Also, due to the heavier motor, I was able to remove the lead in the nose and can use a smaller battery so I actually saved about an ounce. The new wooden winglets have improved the handling but I still need to fix the left aileron. With the added steel auxiliary wing joiners I feel confident performing aerobatics. I did find a QC issue. I got overzealous on a lunch and cracked the rear fuselage former. When I used a hook to pull it back in shape the whole thing came out because it was just tacked in place with a little hot glue. It is now reinforced and epoxied firmly in place but it's something that one will want to check.
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Old Jul 06, 2013, 10:04 PM
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Watching,

Ross
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Old Jul 07, 2013, 01:00 PM
fast,,,, faster
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Old Jul 10, 2013, 12:29 PM
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Hi, guys. My plane arrived!

First impressions: The fuselage is lighter than I expected and the wings are heavier, and stiffer, than I expected. A quick check shows that the vertical fin might be off a couple degrees but I don't usually start to worry about that with a fiberglass fuse until it has been out of the box for awhile to see if it springs back. As is, the apparent twist probably won't be worth correcting. The winglets are also a bit heavy but nicely finished and well formed.

The wing joiner is carbon, slides in easily, and aligns properly. The holes for the wing alignment pins are off but that's a very simple fix. The covering is pretty wrinkled but I don't see any creases so that should be a very simple fix. The tail feathers are stiff and a bit heavier than I expected. I'll have to see if they cause any problems with balance but, at this price, having to make new ones out of lighter materials would only take off a point or two. I haven't opened the parts bag yet but the included decals are for a Salto. I'm actually a bit relieved that it didn't come with the "Super Glider" stickers already applied. I's easy enough to add graphics if/when I want to.

All in all, I think I made a good purchase. I'm on my way out for a training session with my newest student but I'll try and post weights and pics of the components later this afternoon or tomorrow.
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Old Jul 10, 2013, 12:58 PM
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If I didn't already have a very similar, 2.6m powered glider, I would buy one. I checked out the total cost shipped to me, and it came to only $88 usd. Quite a buy! Good luck peter!
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Old Jul 10, 2013, 01:05 PM
I74
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Mine is terrible,,I just got it 2 weeks ago...The aft bulk head ring was glued in wrong, and warped the fuse some..The stab has a 15% twist,and the right aileron, has about a 20% twist also...I used a heat gun for the wrinkles,and tried to get the negative dihedral bow out of the wings.The heat gun worked for the wrinkles,but didn't help for the bow,''I even tried books with the wings between 2 chairs''..The wings are way to heavy,and the winglet tips are even worse...If the CMP ventus was still listed ,I would have exchanged it towards one..''What do you expect for $72.00''...I didn't think It would be this bad though..''I see this as a tipstall-lawn dart''..... P/S,,''anybody have a CMP ventus that they would like to part with''??? I74
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Old Jul 10, 2013, 04:07 PM
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Weights:
Fuselage: 271g
Wings: 255g and 257g
Wiglets: 45g each
Horizontal stab/elevator: 63g
Rudder: 11g

946g plus canopy, (I haven't trimmed it and it wont sit on my scale but it's quite lite.) electronics and hardware. Assuming no ballast is needed I should be able to bring her in a little under 1300g with a 1600mah 3 cell LiPo and, if memory serves from when I was figuring the wing loading, that should put it right around 14 ounces per square foot. Based on previous scale gliders I will happily accept anything under 17 ounces per square foot.

Second impressions.

What's wrong? The winglets are going to need some work to fit and shape. I might end up scraping everything inside the molded curve and fabricating them from balsa. There is a visible line/bulge on the outside of the fuse where the main former was installed but my fuse seems straight enough. The mount for the horizontal stab will also need finishing since it actually has a convex curve to it and isn't quite perpendicular to the vertical fin. The biggest problem I have found so far is that, like I74's, the left aileron has a significant warp and about 4 inches of the wing trailing edge is warped too. I doubt that I will be able to get it all out with heat. Worst possible case? I have to replace one aileron and peel off a section of covering so I can add some sheeting and sand the trailing edge to shape. And? The instruction sheet is for the Mini-Ventus so I'll be working blind and will have to guess at CG and control throws.

What's right?

The fuse is surprisingly light yet stiff and, just from picking at the edges, seems more tough than brittle. Mine is quite straight and well finished aside from the aforementioned bulge at the former but one has to really look for it. At first look the wings seem to be quite heavy but they are very, very, stiff. That's not easy with such a thin, narrow wing (Only 5.5 inch cord at the root 2 inches, not including ailerons, at the tip.). Anyone who has built a scale sailplane wing out of balsa knows that they are tough to make stiff so I figure that the weight is well spent. I could probably build a lighter horizontal stab and elevator but the stock ones are straight and stiff. I taped a servo and the tail feathers to the tail and dropped my motor, ESC, prop, and spinner in the nose and it's just about balanced without the battery or canopy. I'm pretty sure I won't need any added weight and it will be in the tail if I do.

My thoughts going into the build:

It's a $72.00 kit. I knew I was facing significant work, simply by adding a motor in the nose if nothing else, going in. Ordering it based on so little information I was most worried that the fuse would be too heavy and the wings too lite and flexible. I correctly assumed that their estimate of flying weight was really the approximate unfinished weight. I'm not daunted by the fixes needed, I have all the materials I might need on hand, and even the warp in the one wing is not insurmountable.

It's going to be a project. I won't simply screw it together in a couple days and it probably won't fly uneventfully right out of my hand with no trim or balance issues. I am, however, optimistic that I will end up with a flying glider that should soar in strong lift, perform lazy scale aerobatics, and look great doing it. So?

I'm going to run out for my favorite adult beverages and then I'll start in. I've lost good light so pictures will have to wait.

P.S. I think that my kit is better than I74's but I can see where the little flaws could add up to a kit that can't be fixed. I could still end up with a wall hanger so my verdict at this point is for buyers to beware.

Cheers!
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Old Jul 10, 2013, 04:49 PM
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''Nice post peterlngh''.I think this is a poor quality run-off, of the Aerofever Dg 1000.''There is a pretty good ''old'' thread on it''...The popular CG set was 23mm.. My winglets are 15g differant,I think it is going to be very important for everyone to weigh the wings and winglets,for lateral balance...I74
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Old Jul 10, 2013, 07:43 PM
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Thanks, I74. I want to do it up right and, perhaps, I might even come up with some fixes that will allow you to get some good out of yours. That reminds me...

A friend of mine bought a glider some years ago and the fuse was also twisted when the factory installed the formers. He ended up getting a new fuse but we kept looking at the twisted one and decided to cut the formers out and twist it back in shape with judicious use of a heat gun and then he just cut new formers and installed them while I held it straight. He ended up with two usable fuselages. I don't know if yours is better or worse than his but, some day when you are bored, it might be worth looking into.

Now? I'm going to measure another dozen times, make sure I have the proper balance of drink-induced courage and coordination, and chop the nose off!

Cheers!
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Old Jul 10, 2013, 08:09 PM
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Hey peterlngh,I have to wait a couple of days yet,before having a ''cheery''friend-or two, over.... Anyway,,your stab/elevator weighs 63g,mine is 56g. My left winglets original weight was 59g,and the right one is 44g,''close to yours''..I sanded the left one,''by hand'',for about 2 hours the other eve,and got it down to 45g..I am going to drill holes in the vert.tips,ect. and try to knock another 10g off the right one ,and 11g off the left,''there is alot of resin in these''. Then I will paint them white,and cover the holes with white monocoat trim sheets.All my incedence pins are made from carbon,and the winglets will have 2 each ,with them sanded and glued in place, to create a desired dihedral..I'am thinking about a main''light'' foam wheel setup,and I might try the rudder servo in the tail, because, I'am- or -was,,going to mount a CMP edf pod on it,with a ''65g''.''so they say,'' 6 blade 4400kv 64mm edf unit,on a, 164g. 1600 55c 3s,and or,- a 1800 ''light''210g.4s...I need to see if I can get it half way straitend out first though... The edf pod is made for the CMP 2.6m ventus. I saw the video of this setup,It actually took off the runway,with no problem,on a 68mm 5 bade 3500kv unit,on a 1200 3s!! Anyway,,we shall see..regards..I74
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Old Jul 12, 2013, 03:25 PM
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Hi, guys. I figured everything will follow from a good motor mount so that's where I started. Lots of careful sanding and trial fitting and I think the results speak for themselves. I still need to do one final pass on the very tip of the fuselage but I figure I'll wait until I'm ready for final assembly before flight. Also note that I elected to go with a powerful but light HK 2834 and a 34mm spinner. The motor is easy to mount and remove and there's plenty of space to route the wires wherever I want them. With this bird's long nose I wanted to keep the motor light and I've tested the 2834 to 37amps and 460+watts for brief runs with a big slo-fly prop. With the 11X6 I get 26-28amps and a few points either side of 300 watts.
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Old Jul 12, 2013, 04:20 PM
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I don't know a blessed thing about EDF, I74, but I have some thoughts on the winglets.

They are a very different airfoil than the wing at that point but I'm thinking I'll leave the airfoil unaltered to start. Here's why: One of the reasons why scale gliders are prone to tip stalls is because the wing is just so thin and narrow at the tip. At least my winglets are considerably fatter and more blunt than the airfoil itself. I figure I'll just fix the uneven portions and stick with a thicker and less critical shape. In theory, these winglets, with a little dressing up, could really help with any inherent tendency to tip stall.

I would think that steps to reduce a tendency to tip stall will be paramount when you are adding the weight and drag of an EDF compared to a simple folding prop. Here's a link to what I have done to the ailerons on my 2meter ASW 28 to reduce tip stall. I also sanded the leading edge of the last 5 inches of wing to a rounder profile with a lower entry point because there wasn't enough material in the trailing edge to sand in washout.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=94

I'm going to try and start off with the stock ailerons on my Super Glider (That sounds asinine. From now on I'm going to call it a DG 1000.) but I won't hesitate to do the same thing on it if it seems desirable.

BTW. I mounted the prop and spinner and spun it up. It's solid as a rock!
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Old Jul 12, 2013, 04:26 PM
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BTWX2, I74.

Don't forget that this bird is supposed to fly with the nose down when you align your decalage, wing incidence, and thrust line. I didn't realize just how low the nose is until I propped it up to see where to make the first cut for the motor mount.

heers!
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Old Jul 13, 2013, 08:39 AM
I74
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Peterlngh,

''Thanx for the info.'' I need to get over to my buddies, and have him help me with the twists,,one guy twisting,while the other one heating.And then go from there...P/S, how are your wings-to the fuse, lining up??? P/SS,mine is a DG 1000 also.
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Old Jul 13, 2013, 06:21 PM
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The wing to fuse joint is O.K. except that the alignment pins were not even close. I needed a little sanding to get the wings to pull in tight with a rubber band. I have trial fit my pins but I'm waiting for an extra pair of hands before I glue them in. I've also got the mount for the horizontal stab leveled and flat. I figure I'll use a temporary shim until I have a few flights in in case I need to adjust the incidence.
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