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Old Aug 05, 2011, 10:57 AM
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Joined Jun 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnstorm100 View Post
It looks like your flying it really good. Why did you lose the tail
These helis are wearing me out.
They're wearing me out too......
I haven't had time to investigate yet, but that wasn't the first time I lost the tail on that helicopter. I had previously lost all signal to the tail servo mid flight and was getting no response from it when bench testing after, so I replaced the tail servo with an align and started flying again. The align is plastic gear but they sell metal gears to put inside it if the plastic ones strip, so i figured eventually i'd do that. I only had about 4 batteries on that new servo and no crashes, so I wouldn't think an align tail servo would go out mid flight like that, so I have some investigation to do. The last time i went into a tail spin I was about 30 feet up, and closer to being over the real tall grass, so I had time to aim for the grass and hit the throttle hold and walked away from it all relatively unscathed. Unfortunately this time when I went into tail spin i was close to the ground and didn't hit the throttle hold in time and smashed it up pretty good, so I have some work to do before I can even begin to investigate the tail spin. I'll check the basic stuff, but I can't run the heli right now cause it's too beaten up. It is possible that the screw that holds the servo arm worked its way out since I only waited an hour or so for the loctite to dry before flying.... or it could be something more serious like a bad rx. (also, it all happened quick so i'm not sure, but it seemed like it took a dip to the left before the tail started spinning... i've never had a cyclic servo go out on me, so i'm not sure the effects but reading on the forum it sounds a little different, but i'll look into these too just in case)

Meanwhile, I agree with kdean that other helis can be much more trouble than the v400. Can't wait till I get my 400 parts in so I can fix it up and fly a somewhat dependable heli...

Oh, i did want to mention one thing about people thinking about going brushless on the v400 but don't have the 2801 tx yet. I put in the alpha400 motor and flew through probably about 15 batteries using the 2603 tx, and I had it flying pretty comfortable using that tx. It was a bit of a challenge to get it set up right, and i'm definitely glad I got the 2801, but it is possible to get a fairly nice flying heli with the big brushless motor and the 2603, so if you don't have the 2801 yet don't let that stop you from upgrading It was a bit of a challenge to get the 2603 set up, but I think i remember my settings, so feel free to ask if you do decide to do this.
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Old Aug 05, 2011, 12:05 PM
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United States, CA, Fullerton
Joined Jul 2011
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Hi Guys,

I've got my brushless up and running again, but this time with the 2801. The 2801 enabled me to dial down the throttle curve on the Alpha 400 to a very relaxed 20%--I know this is seriously low compared to others here, but it's still faster than the stock motor, and for now I am more comfortable with a lower speed motor.

Heli Biggie, I've got to tell you, after losing yet another stock motor, I couldn't be happier with this brushless system (the one recommended by Kdean). I've never had a stock motor just burn out on me, rather they would start to vary in output power, always at the wrong time. They would get super weak and soggy, causing me to compensate with more throttle, and then they would all of a sudden go balls to the wall temporarily. My last stock motor got so weak (after just 5 or so flights) that the heli just wanted to dump over right off the ground. It was so bad, I became affraid my ESC would burn. But with the brushless system and the 2801, all of these problems are gone, even though I am still working out some minor bugs.

Speaking of bugs, guys, I am still getting that intermittent tail glitch--sounds like the main gear popping a tooth, but it's not the main gear (I checked every tooth, and it looks great). So, is it possible for these brushless motors to "misfire" occassionally? Or, could it be tail wag due to some sort of vibration screwing with the gyro? This is a big issue with the little CB100, but I haven't run into tail wag issues with the V400, so I don't really know what to look for.
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Old Aug 05, 2011, 12:54 PM
They call me plan B
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United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
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So it sounds like i need to go brushless.. I may just order the rtf. I am asking them if they can give me the 40a esc instead of the 18 that comes with it. (not sure what that does). I have a stock motor coming so i can figure this alll out ane still fly .i may put my v120 vs the wind again.

So with my 2801 do i need a programer??
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Old Aug 05, 2011, 01:13 PM
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Hi Heli Biggie, you don't "need" to go brushless. Plenty of people stick with the stock motor(s). At first, I went brushless just for the greater reliability that is so often discussed. At that time, however, I was still using the 2603 Tx and I could not tone down the motor RPMs. I found the motor to be just too fast for me, and so I went back to a new stock motor.

With the stock motor installed, immediately I was missing the better performance of the brushless (I know, I am fickle). And, the new stock motor started acting like it was about to die right from the 5th or so flight. I eventually pulled the trigger on a 2801, and then resolved to do a better job than before of installing my brushless and setting up the Tx. Just yesterday, I performed the maiden flight on the brushless with the new 2801--24 hours later, and I am still smiling about it.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your question, but I did not need any type of programmer for the 2801. I did get the programming card for the brushless ESC, however--I seriously recommend you do this if you do go brushless.
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Old Aug 05, 2011, 01:29 PM
They call me plan B
Heli Biggie's Avatar
United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
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So the programer is for the esc. Do i have to have it? Do i need one if i get the rtf kit?



Quote:
Originally Posted by navigator2011 View Post
Hi Heli Biggie, you don't "need" to go brushless. Plenty of people stick with the stock motor(s). At first, I went brushless just for the greater reliability that is so often discussed. At that time, however, I was still using the 2603 Tx and I could not tone down the motor RPMs. I found the motor to be just too fast for me, and so I went back to a new stock motor.

With the stock motor installed, immediately I was missing the better performance of the brushless (I know, I am fickle). And, the new stock motor started acting like it was about to die right from the 5th or so flight. I eventually pulled the trigger on a 2801, and then resolved to do a better job than before of installing my brushless and setting up the Tx. Just yesterday, I performed the maiden flight on the brushless with the new 2801--24 hours later, and I am still smiling about it.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your question, but I did not need any type of programmer for the 2801. I did get the programming card for the brushless ESC, however--I seriously recommend you do this if you do go brushless.
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Old Aug 05, 2011, 01:39 PM
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United States, CA, Rancho Cordova
Joined Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navigator2011 View Post
Hi Heli Biggie, you don't "need" to go brushless. Plenty of people stick with the stock motor(s). At first, I went brushless just for the greater reliability that is so often discussed. At that time, however, I was still using the 2603 Tx and I could not tone down the motor RPMs. I found the motor to be just too fast for me, and so I went back to a new stock motor.

With the stock motor installed, immediately I was missing the better performance of the brushless (I know, I am fickle). And, the new stock motor started acting like it was about to die right from the 5th or so flight. I eventually pulled the trigger on a 2801, and then resolved to do a better job than before of installing my brushless and setting up the Tx. Just yesterday, I performed the maiden flight on the brushless with the new 2801--24 hours later, and I am still smiling about it.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your question, but I did not need any type of programmer for the 2801. I did get the programming card for the brushless ESC, however--I seriously recommend you do this if you do go brushless.
Hi navigator2011,

How can it be? Only 5 flights before it started acting up? I'm coming up on 62 flights on stock motor. I just did 2 more flights this morning. Like I said, I'm no expert, far from it. All I know is the experience I've had. I had one motor out of 4 that didn't last long and that was the one I was experimenting with pitch and pitch travel. Adding pitch and pitch travel to get the most power heats the motor up a lot. I think the burnishing thing works. But I just don't add that much pitch and travel. It make a difference
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Old Aug 05, 2011, 01:41 PM
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With the rft kit, I think they program the ESC for you, but you'd better verify that.

When I first bought my brushless, I didn't bother with the programming card. Instead, I tried to use the "stick method" on the Tx. To do this, you will have to bind the Walkera ESC first, and then once the servos twitch, you'll have to bind the brushless ESC with the throttle stick at max throttle to put the ESC into programming mode. You will then have to meander through a series of "musical" menus, selecting the desired settings along the way.

This may save you $7, but what a pain, though. I finally sprang for the card, and then discovered that I had not correctly set up my ESC in the first place. Therefore, I wholeheartedly recommend purchasing the card with the brushless ESC.
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Old Aug 05, 2011, 01:44 PM
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I went to the small park this morning to practice small circles. Clockwise was easy to do endless circles with good form. When I tried to go CCW I couldn't really do them I know its because CCW your fighting the motor torque.
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Old Aug 05, 2011, 01:48 PM
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Barnstorm100, I'll bet that PLT and PIT thing is true--after being spoiled with the brushless performance, I did try to get more out of the stocker. Plus, I think I screwed up my burnishing procedure. But still, I've had that power variation problem will all my stock motors. This latest one was simply the worst. I've also had my suspicions about the stock ESC, too. Maybe the ESC isn't putting out a consistent voltage or something. I don't know, but the brushless seems pretty stable power-wise, if not perfectly so, except for that occassional tail glitch.
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Old Aug 05, 2011, 07:39 PM
They call me plan B
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United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
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Rtf says they will put the 40a esc on it for me.i think i will go that route. I wish someone had tryed the v450 system . That wold be a good upgrade
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Old Aug 05, 2011, 08:59 PM
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Malaysia, Pulau Pinang, Tanjong Bungah
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hi all.. sorry for my noob question..

when we say going brushless...
is it i.. just changing the main motor brushless
or changing the main motor and tail motor together?
(and the ESC)
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Old Aug 06, 2011, 12:00 AM
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The Bahamas
Joined Dec 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam1741 View Post
hi all.. sorry for my noob question..

when we say going brushless...
is it i.. just changing the main motor brushless
or changing the main motor and tail motor together?
(and the ESC)
going brushless would be replaceing the brushed main motor for a brushless motor and adding a brushless esc and signal convertor.

To go brushless on the tail, you will also need another small brushless motor and small esc, with a high speed signal convertor. That would make it double brushless. It is possible, but with the right stuff. Im still working on makeing my v400 #3 double brushless.
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Old Aug 06, 2011, 12:36 PM
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Hey Guys, flew a pack this morning and ironed out some weird vibration issues. But I still have that darned tail glitch. For certain, it is not the pinion gear slipping or skipping teeth on the main gear. Some of these glitches are BAD, but the main gear remains in perfect condition. The glitch seems kind of like there's a static electricity discharge in the motor or something. So, now I wonder if it is the Alpha 400 motor occassionally studdering. Is that known to happen with this motor?

I also noticed that the motor and ESC are kind of warm after 8 minutes of flight, about as warm as the LIPO gets. I don't know if this is evidence of anything, though. Anyone have any ideas on this glitching?
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Old Aug 06, 2011, 01:48 PM
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Belgium, Vlaams Gewest, Leuven
Joined Aug 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
Rtf says they will put the 40a esc on it for me.i think i will go that route. I wish someone had tryed the v450 system . That wold be a good upgrade
I'm with you.. I also ordered the RTF kit with 40A esc, for 10$ extra. The tail boom support will be in next week.

Happy I'm not alone on this upgrade. I hope my copter arrives somewhere next week, and if all goes well I'll be upgrading servo's and mainmotor in 2 or 3 weeks. Keep you posted!

Thanks all for the good info!

Bart
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Old Aug 06, 2011, 01:51 PM
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Belgium, Vlaams Gewest, Leuven
Joined Aug 2011
102 Posts
another off topic question,
RTF sell a 14t pinion http://www.rtf-heli.com/Pinions.html
Will these fit on my small Walkera CB100 ? The main motor pinion is worn out but the motor still works well. Can I just replace the pinion?

Greetz!
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