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Old Nov 13, 2012, 06:41 PM
QuAd FaNaTiC
Razors edge 29's Avatar
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Sorry, I meant I bevel on side of the hinge

ie

not top and bottom just one side, but on both sides of hinge!



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Originally Posted by ROLLING CIRCLE View Post
Well, we've built a few EPP foamies and never do either. We never bevel both sides, only the bottom and then we only use a smashed welders bead on top. You could cut a welder's hinge that is to stiff and use less to hinge on the next attempt. Putting heavy weights on the aileron with it bent all the way to the non beveled edge could help decide if a hinge really needs to be cut or not. When determined to cut and reglue, the important thing is to let the surfaces touch, lay a bead of glue and then smash the bead flat so as to spread it. To stop aileron twist, we used flat carbon along the back of the aileron. See the video in the review thread. The twist may be noticable and really may reduce flyability. With the right power combo, that little bit of added weight from carbon strips won't matter. I wouldn't use CA hinges. Last week I got some real nice little tiny piano-hinge-style hinges from HeadsUpRC.com. They might work on something like this but EPP and Welders kind of "go together." The twist was the primary thing in need of correction on our build. Good luck and happy flying!
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 06:44 PM
QuAd FaNaTiC
Razors edge 29's Avatar
Canada
Joined Aug 2009
21,351 Posts
I';ll have to look into these piano-hinge-style hinge.

I've used a similair type hinge made my dubro - they were okay.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ROLLING CIRCLE View Post
Well, we've built a few EPP foamies and never do either. We never bevel both sides, only the bottom and then we only use a smashed welders bead on top. You could cut a welder's hinge that is to stiff and use less to hinge on the next attempt. Putting heavy weights on the aileron with it bent all the way to the non beveled edge could help decide if a hinge really needs to be cut or not. When determined to cut and reglue, the important thing is to let the surfaces touch, lay a bead of glue and then smash the bead flat so as to spread it. To stop aileron twist, we used flat carbon along the back of the aileron. See the video in the review thread. The twist may be noticable and really may reduce flyability. With the right power combo, that little bit of added weight from carbon strips won't matter. I wouldn't use CA hinges. Last week I got some real nice little tiny piano-hinge-style hinges from HeadsUpRC.com. They might work on something like this but EPP and Welders kind of "go together." The twist was the primary thing in need of correction on our build. Good luck and happy flying!
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 07:00 PM
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eltreato's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors edge 29 View Post
I always bevel both sides of control surfaces yes


More throw that way and less resistance

But

It your using floppy disk material you may want to leave a more foam in bevel to insert hinge material

If that makes any sense lol
Thanks again RE29, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't completely missing something here.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 07:47 PM
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No problem

Do you understand what I mean?

I dont actually mean 45 (bevel) top and bottom on control surface, but just both sides of hinge line.

For example for the ailerons

you bevel the aileron flap itself underneath, then do the same to the underside of the wing.

BUT

if your using CA or floppy disk hinges, I wouldn't make a complete sharp point on top side of the bevel.

You need foam to use the hinge material UNLESS, like myself and others use glue hinges.


I think Bert actually has a pic in build video of this bird if I an not mistaken.

Shows a close up of hinge itself.


just want to make sure I'm not confusing you.



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Thanks again RE29, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't completely missing something here.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 02:00 AM
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RE,

I totally get it.

I've almost got the build done now. It's surprising how easily it's gone together. The instructions are nice and succinct. I've looked at build threads for other similar EPPs out there and the instructions go on and on and on, so it's nice not being bombarded with too many steps. Bert's video and instructions and your suggestions and photos, have been a great help for this build. The suggestion for Beacon's glue was huge. I ended up using "Hold the Foam" and it's been great for the floppy disk hinges and control horns. I hope to have the electronics in sometime next week. I'll post some pics when done, thanks again for your help.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 07:31 AM
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No problem

Glad I could help
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 01:30 AM
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Hey Razor,

I'm just finishing up my build and I had one last question. I've got a gws 8043 prop with the same motor as you, but it doesn't mate all that well with the motor. The prop has a "hexed" inlay in it, but the end of the motor I seat it on is round. Assuming my prop is the same as yours did you mount a nut on the motor to seat the prop properly? I did a test power up and my prop went flying off breaking one of my two prop elastics. It's like I'm missing an adapter of some kind. Is this something you experienced? This is really the only thing keeping me from my maiden.

All the best!
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 11:30 AM
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No you just need good elastics or rubber o rings to hold it down

The elastics that come with motor aren't the best

The prop hub does seem sloppy on motor yes; believe or not this is normal.

I use rubber o rings which can be bought in plumbing section at hardware stores
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 11:58 AM
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Good to hear, I took another look at the stock elastics, one cracked in my hand. I will try some solid ones today.

thanks again!
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 12:32 PM
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no probs

let us know how maiden goes
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 04:30 PM
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Well I had a one hour window to maiden this thing yesterday... and it aligned perfectly with an hour of constant rain. Anyways, I should be able to maiden next weekend. I have a feeling I'll be going to 3s pretty soon as it doesn't feel like it's generating enough thrust on 2s to come close to hovering when I simulate a hand launch in my parking garage. I don't know if it's reasonable to expect that I can hover something with this weight on 2s Mine is weighs in at about 168g without battery, it actually feels heavy, but I'm used to only flying UMX stuff. I've got good throw on the aileron and rudder control surfaces, but for some reason the elevator throw seems lacking, despite full servo travel and no pushrod flex, I'll likely tinker with this after the maiden. I don't think it has to do with the disk hinges as they seem to be nice and loose.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 07:14 PM
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pretty crappy weather around these days

You'll need less elevator that you think lol

It could be the esc settings making you think it is lack luster in thrust, or, maybe need better batts.

Mine is heavy as its been re glued many times and still hovers.

good luck when you get a chance


Quote:
Originally Posted by eltreato View Post
Well I had a one hour window to maiden this thing yesterday... and it aligned perfectly with an hour of constant rain. Anyways, I should be able to maiden next weekend. I have a feeling I'll be going to 3s pretty soon as it doesn't feel like it's generating enough thrust on 2s to come close to hovering when I simulate a hand launch in my parking garage. I don't know if it's reasonable to expect that I can hover something with this weight on 2s Mine is weighs in at about 168g without battery, it actually feels heavy, but I'm used to only flying UMX stuff. I've got good throw on the aileron and rudder control surfaces, but for some reason the elevator throw seems lacking, despite full servo travel and no pushrod flex, I'll likely tinker with this after the maiden. I don't think it has to do with the disk hinges as they seem to be nice and loose.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 04:11 PM
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Alright, so I had a chance to maiden this thing today. The airframe was perfectly fine, no surprises whatsoever. My elevator didn't come close to having enough authority, I may need a new servo with more rotational movement to do the trick.

My main problem, however was power using the RE's non-stock setup. Because of this I don't think I can fairly comment on the flying behaviour of the airframe yet as I was running a 2s 300mah umx 35c stock 130x battery and could barely climb at all, with absolutely no power for hovering or knife edge. The proble mwas not liimited to the lack of elevator throw. From what I learned about the turnigy esc I'm running, it's possible to adjust the startup power curve, but it doesn't appear to have anything in the setup that will give it more power. My motor sounded like it was working hard, but my plane just wasn't going anywhere. In all my landings on the grass when I got to the plane the prop was slightly off the spinner leading me also to believe I need a tighter elastic.

Razor, can you tell me what type of battery connectors you're using? I'm thinking maybe I can get more power with my XT60s and my Nanotech 350s with a higher burst rating than the e-flite battery. I realize e-flite's are normally garbage, but my experience is the 130x batteriesare actually great in the 130x, which I beleive has a 12A esc. When I was bulding this plane I figured I'd go with the umx plug because the motor wires are so skinny, and the plug doesn't look out of place with them.

I have some 500mah 3s on the way in the mail, they were meant for a 540qq, but after hearing a bit more about it, I'm a bit less keen on it, I may however try sticking one in this plane despite the weight, but I'd like to get it sorted out on 2s first.

Cheers!

Wait a sec, I re-rtfm'ed and found there is a "timing setting" on the Turnigy 10a esc that by default is set to low. I'm going to try medium and high to see if I can get this plane to go somewhere.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 07:11 PM
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Mine are just jst

Is your motor new?

Mine works fine on 2S nano tech 370s

Perhaps you need to set throttle range on your esc or your order esc is bad

First esc I ran in mine was a older plush 6 but it was pooches and exhibited similar behavior as yours did.

Then I upgraded to plush 10 which works better with the 9 gram digit servos I am using anyways
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 07:36 PM
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That elevator may have a bit too much Welders on it. Maybe cut and redo it and then the same old servo might work fine. Just a thought. We have cheapo HK orange servos in that plane. Seem to be working fine.
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