Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Dec 09, 2013, 02:44 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Los Altos
Joined Feb 2012
167 Posts
Discussion
Karel Vagenknecht v Paritech v ???

Hi all,

I've just recently (re-)discovered scale sailplanes after having been away from the hobby for some years... and they are so much better now, fully molded, super efficient airfoils, live hinges, electric power options and much more. And I love the look of the modern sailplanes that are modelled, such as the Discus and Ventus. So with the big 5-0 birthday coming up early next year I think I want one of these gorgeous European beauties!!

I need some advice to get pointed in the right direction. I'll be doing primarily thermaling, with some occasional slope, but I'd like something I can take up to a speck, dive down for a super high speed pass and some aerobatics, then hook right back up to catch the next thermal. So speed retention, high speed capability, and strong wings are a must. And it must do an axial roll without coming off heading. But of course I still want good thermal capability!

I drooled over these links... but this is a larger 6m model...

Air Burns Clip 2 (8 min 17 sec)


Duo Discus XT (4 min 38 sec)


As for size, I'm considering airplanes in the 4-5 meter range. Whatever I get has to fit into my Rav4 with room left over for the other toys too! And I don't want something so big that it becomes inconvenient to set up or requires a huge landing area.

After doing preliminary research here on rcgroups, youtube, rcaerotowing, and looking at a bunch of different manufacturer websites, I really like what I see at KV models and Paritech. In particular the KV Discus 2B (4.28m, though they have a 4m version as well?), Duo Discus and Ventus look very interesting, as do the Paritech Elan Acro, Discus 2B and Duo Discus.

Does anyone have comments on KV versus Paritech generally or on any of the above sailplanes? How about the performance of the HQ airfoils (all the above except the Elan Acro) versus the MH32 of the Elan? What other sailplanes should I consider?

Decisions, Decisions...

Thanks and Happy Holidays
Rick
rjtw is offline Find More Posts by rjtw
Last edited by rjtw; Dec 09, 2013 at 03:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Dec 09, 2013, 05:10 PM
Bro
Registered User
Bro's Avatar
Southern California
Joined Feb 2003
1,930 Posts
KV Duo

RJTW,
If you are in California, come by our shop and see the KV ventus, or Duo X...
There are many others we have in stock also...
Bring a bib...

Or,
If you can make it to AMA show next month we should have a few on display also...

Best,
Bob
Bro is offline Find More Posts by Bro
Site Sponsor
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 10, 2013, 09:16 AM
Registered User
PeteSchug's Avatar
Elmhurst, NY (Queens in NYC)
Joined Apr 2004
7,022 Posts
You might consider getting the relatively small and inexpensive Parkzone Ka-8 to fool around with while you decide. It's mostly a thermal ship that can work small thermals.

That will take the edge off your hunger and give you more time to think and talk to people at the field.

Just a thought. You can also learn aero tow with it. All you need is an inexpensive trainer of fifty or sixty inches span and maybe a motor upgrade. Better to learn this on a low cost sailplane than something running into four (or more) figures.

Pete
PeteSchug is offline Find More Posts by PeteSchug
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Some Books About Flying
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 10, 2013, 11:37 AM
Will fly for food
davidjensen's Avatar
Bellevue WA,
Joined Dec 2003
6,652 Posts
Rick I'm in the same boat as you are as I'm selling my 4m ASW 28 and want to get a replacement in the 5m range. The big beautiful modern glass ships are very good indeed. They are strong and often heavy. They need to be heavy to keep their speed up. They will thermal but don't expect them to circle within a tight small thermal. If the thermal is big enough its no problem but the scalies will not turn like an F3J ship. I'm torn between the LET ASW 28/18 5m and the HF ASW 29 5m. The simplicity of the 28 (no flaps) has merit but the added flaps of the 29 provides more options for landings.
davidjensen is offline Find More Posts by davidjensen
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 10, 2013, 04:55 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Los Altos
Joined Feb 2012
167 Posts
Thanks for the feedback. I'm leaning pretty heavily toward something with flaps as well for the same reason. Speed and penetration are good! What differences are you looking for with a 5m model over the 4m? Just curious if there are specific performance features you're looking for (besides size alone).

Would anybody recommend (or not) the extra carbon option available from KV on some models? Thanks!

Rick
rjtw is offline Find More Posts by rjtw
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 10, 2013, 05:04 PM
Bro
Registered User
Bro's Avatar
Southern California
Joined Feb 2003
1,930 Posts
Kv

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjtw View Post
Thanks for the feedback. I'm leaning pretty heavily toward something with flaps as well for the same reason. Speed and penetration are good! What differences are you looking for with a 5m model over the 4m? Just curious if there are specific performance features you're looking for (besides size alone).

Would anybody recommend (or not) the extra carbon option available from KV on some models? Thanks!

Rick
Rick,
The models are very strong in the standard layup. I do not think the full carbon version is needed. Again, come by or go to AMA and see for yourself.

Regards,
Bob
Bro is offline Find More Posts by Bro
Site Sponsor
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2013, 12:14 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Los Altos
Joined Feb 2012
167 Posts
Love this one too... very much my style.
Paritech ASG 29 6m. Another MH32 airfoil.

http://www.rcmovie.de/video/aea76b34180a6f6412e7/

And a great build thread with a nose mount motor
http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...29-v-Paritech?
rjtw is offline Find More Posts by rjtw
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2013, 01:07 PM
Registered User
New York
Joined Feb 2002
3,032 Posts
I have the KV 4.5 meter Pilatus B-4 and it's an outstanding model. Very strong, quality construction, fully molded with nice fuse detail, thermals very well, aerobatic and can go very fast when you point the nose down. An outstanding all-arounder.

Steve
SteveR is offline Find More Posts by SteveR
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2013, 04:59 PM
Registered User
Joined May 2010
1,605 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveR View Post
I have the KV 4.5 meter Pilatus B-4 and it's an outstanding model. Very strong, quality construction, fully molded with nice fuse detail, thermals very well, aerobatic and can go very fast when you point the nose down. An outstanding all-arounder.

Steve
Do not dare ti sell it, mine needs brother next time we fly together. You guys should come next year to Joe Nall.

Zb/Esprit Model
Esprit Model is offline Find More Posts by Esprit Model
Site Sponsor
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 13, 2013, 07:20 AM
Registered User
New York
Joined Feb 2002
3,032 Posts
Zb, looking forward to tearing up the skies together with twin B-4's and twin Jeti radios. I also think the deep undercamber near the wing root contributes to the outstanding flight characteristics, goes up the tow on rails.

Regards,

Steve
SteveR is offline Find More Posts by SteveR
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 13, 2013, 08:51 AM
Registered User
United States, CO, Denver
Joined Mar 2013
60 Posts
that air burns clip is disgusting. wish i had a place like that to fly.
jwrendenver is offline Find More Posts by jwrendenver
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 13, 2013, 09:58 AM
Registered User
Tampere, Finland
Joined Oct 2009
141 Posts
I was also looking out for a 5m scale glider but I felt that most of them were too heavy. This is in a different league weightwise, 5,2 kg sounds good to me:

http://www.mg-modellbau.de/webshop/p...76f530abed84cf

A Swiss delight actually, by Choco Fly. MG-modellbau is the German dealer for the SB-14.
Here is the Choco Fly site:

http://www.chocofly.com/sb-14/anleitung/

There was a long review in Aufwind, also Philip Kolb said some nice things about this in his GPS contest report here in RC Groups. Post 28 on: GPS-Triangle WM Tortosa / Spain (Cross Country Soaring).

I ordered mine last month, about 5 months of waiting ahead!
Two piece wings, check your car before ordering. I did

Tommy
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidjensen View Post
Rick I'm in the same boat as you are as I'm selling my 4m ASW 28 and want to get a replacement in the 5m range. The big beautiful modern glass ships are very good indeed. They are strong and often heavy. They need to be heavy to keep their speed up. They will thermal but don't expect them to circle within a tight small thermal. If the thermal is big enough its no problem but the scalies will not turn like an F3J ship. I'm torn between the LET ASW 28/18 5m and the HF ASW 29 5m. The simplicity of the 28 (no flaps) has merit but the added flaps of the 29 provides more options for landings.
Tommy Wee is offline Find More Posts by Tommy Wee
Last edited by Tommy Wee; Dec 13, 2013 at 10:11 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 14, 2013, 05:45 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Los Altos
Joined Feb 2012
167 Posts
Tommy, the ChocoFly SB-14 is very nice... I like the picture demonstrating the flexibility of the two different wings.
rjtw is offline Find More Posts by rjtw
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 14, 2013, 06:03 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Los Altos
Joined Feb 2012
167 Posts
OK, here's where I'm at...

Paritech DG-300 Elan Acro (5m) looks great, strong wing, MH32 airfoil which I understand should be very fast (and only 10%) BUT I want to add an electric motor as a nose mount for self-launch off ground and the DG-300 just doesn't have enough meat at the very nose due to the canopy design.

Paritech Discus 2B (4m)... still very much a possibility... though more and more 4m is sounding small to me... It's got the HQ 2.5 airfoil, unknown percentage.

Paritech ASG29: another MH32 rocketship, fully aerobatic, incredible. And the wings break down into smaller sections, though this is really bigger than I think I want. There's only one thing between me and a purchase and that's simply that I don't really care for the shape of the forward fuselage pod on almost all the ASW/ASG designs (excepting the ASW22). I like a more symmetrical profile.

Which leaves me, for the moment, with the Paritech 5.33m Duo Discus and the KV 5.33 Duo Discus or Duo Discus X. Paritech's uses the HQ 2.5 (unknown %) again, while KV uses an HQ 3/15-12 mod.

There's a video out on YouTube also showing a Paritech 5.33 Duo Discus with a beautiful nose mount motor, also with an interchangeable nose cone in place of a prop/spinner to revert back to pure glider and you'd never know there was a motor up front. Very very clean, and it looks like the spinner is a perfect match for the shape of the front of the nose all the way round.

Question: What flight differences might I expect between MH32, HQ2.5 and HQ3 airfoils?

And can anyone who owns or has flown either model offer feedback on performance?

Happy flying!

Rick
rjtw is offline Find More Posts by rjtw
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 14, 2013, 07:48 PM
slope'n the Colombian Andes
ShredAir's Avatar
Colombia, Antioquia, Girardota
Joined Mar 2001
4,678 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjtw View Post
OK, here's where I'm at... I want to add an electric motor as a nose mount for self-launch off ground...
I doubt that's possible without a launch dolly (not answering any of your questions, I know...).
FWIW, the 5-meter Paritech DG-300 Elan Acro is a best-seller in Europe. Maybe use a plug-in power pod instead of nose-mount.

Dieter Mahlein, ShredAir
ShredAir is online now Find More Posts by ShredAir
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Paritech 1/4 cirrus-v Discusdan1 Scale Sailplanes 5 Apr 29, 2012 05:36 PM
Sold Cirrus-V by PariTech soaranator Aircraft - Sailplanes (FS/W) 1 Sep 29, 2011 10:11 PM
Discussion ISO more info on F3J Glider : Superstar from Karel Kaudelka infopimp Sailplane Talk 64 Jul 20, 2009 06:00 AM
Discussion Is EMS the same as Karel Vagenknecht? dbarrym Scale Sailplanes 10 Aug 22, 2008 01:10 AM
Discussion New F3J Glider Superstar from Karel Kaudelka kadir Sailplane Talk 3 Nov 06, 2007 02:53 PM