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Old Apr 04, 2014, 01:16 AM
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shane_hood's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Menai
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Help!
2 Great plane Seawind .90's (the big ones0 need water rudder

guys i am desperately after some images of the water rudder setup on the Great Planes Seawind
I have 2
one in the box brand new and one im learning to fly (yes its not easy)
but its harder without water control!


can any one please post images of the tail water rudder setup please!!!
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Old Apr 04, 2014, 05:24 AM
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Canada, ON, Windsor
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Is there not a set of instructions in the box?


I have the Nitro Planes version hanging downstairs, but also have the G/P manual saved in .pdf format. There are pics and instructions on pg. 17. However, due to the format cannot copy and post them here.

Suffice to say that the mounting is relatively simple, with a rudder and shaft sliding into a premounted tube from the bottom to protrude slightly from the top. There is a notch in the rudder to clear this protrusion.

Aft of the notch is a ply base and servo wire style anchor, (used to connect and adjust wire control runs to a servo) with the servo anchor facing downwards. There is an axle retainer and long wire made to connect the aircraft and water rudder together. You simply slide the wire into the servo anchor, then drop the wheel retainer on the water rudder shaft and tighten it down. This sets it up so that as the rudder deflects the anchor drags the wire along with it, also deflecting the water rudder in the same direction.

This may not be the best description and I can send you the file if you send me a PM with your Email. I'll be hitting the Toledo Show all day and would not be able to help till this evening.

After all this the stock water rudder itself is not the best as there is no facility to deflect if you hit anything along the way. Solid enough and you can cause considerable damage. I was planning to make my rudder pivot on the bottom of the steering shaft to allow for that, as well as dumping grasses or other high drag crud that gets picked up during water ops.


Even though less sophisticated, the reason I chose the N/P version was from all the forums I read beforehand, the hull design is better for water operations. The Great Planes suffers from a misplaced step and due to this is a bear to work with. So far I have gutted the wings to fix the prior owners hatchet job on the gear mounts and move the servos to a better setup. One other mod and perhaps a bit more critical to get right is to move the fuel tank down to the CofG in the fuse and use a Perry pump to feed the Saito 100 set aside to power it.



I always considered this plane the sexiest amphib ever designed, to the point where my father and I looked at the original back in the late 70's and I took the family to see it and meet one of the designers in Haliburton, ONT in the early 80's. Still have the pics of the visit.
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Old Apr 04, 2014, 10:04 PM
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Here are a couple of pictures to illustrate the installation of the water rudder on the 71" Seawind. Hope this helps. At least one of you kit boxes should have a manual. See page 17.

One another note, if you are not a reasonably proficient RC pilot, put the Seawinds aside until you have at least mastered an Aileron Trainer and a simple seaplane, say the 39" foam Seawind. The big Seawinds (71") are no longer in production and are now substantially more valuable than the original kit price.
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Old Apr 05, 2014, 01:09 AM
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Australia, NSW, Menai
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thank you guys for the replies
lucky for me i have 2 one literally brand new in hte box (there may be a rudder in there i didnt want to unwrap it

i run the electric version so no fuel but there are 2 big batteries in there!

could you guys email me a few close up images of the connection please and the mounts
looks like i may have to make my own
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Old Apr 05, 2014, 07:37 AM
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You cannot add images or extra files to PM's, so you would have to give us your Email addy, (send it to us via PM, not posted out here).
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Old Apr 05, 2014, 01:53 PM
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Shane,

If you go to the www.rcuniverse.com site, many of the setup details you are looking for are shown in the thread "Great Planes Seawind Electric Conversion".

A couple of key points:

1- locate the esc as close to the batteries as possible. Use long wires, at least 12 gauge, to connect the motor to the esc.
2- Disregard the instruction manual when it says the CG must be located 1 1/8" behind the leading edge. This instruction is for a fuel plane with an empty tank. With a "full tank" the CG moves back to about 2 1/8" behind the leading edge (ie, takeoff weight). There is a thread by "Kingsflyer" that review the cg issues of the big Seawind on www.rcg.com. Move your batteries around the belly of the plane to get the cg in the proper place. You should not need nose weight for an electric setup.
3- Your first prop should be 13x8, two or three blade with a motor capable of getting > 10,000 rpm with appropriate batteries. Staying at 8" pitch or less for the first few flights is important so that you don't encounter prop stall on takeoff.


4- Alignment -- For me, the most important step to getting successful takeoffs was getting the alignment of the wing, horizontal stabilizer, and motor thrust line properly set up. For my set up, the horizontal stabilizer is set at -3 deg to the wing. The motor thrust line is as parallel to the horizontal stabilizer as I can make it, so also about -3 deg to the wing. In my case, the motor shaft comes out near the bottom of the hole in the cowl, but the takeoff results justify the odd setup.

When the motor shaft was centered in the cowl, the porposing on takeoff was severe and I nearly destroyed the aircraft the first few times I attempted to take off of water. With the revised thrust line, takeoffs are pleasant and similiar to what KINGSFLYER shows in his Seawind videos.

Good Luck,

Bob
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Old Apr 05, 2014, 10:26 PM
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thanks for the feedback guys
my email is shane (at) hoodimagery.com.au
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Old Apr 06, 2014, 12:14 AM
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Here's the link to my article on converting the SeaWind to electric.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=660997

McD
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Old Apr 06, 2014, 04:32 AM
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my esc is in the same place
i dont have an issue with build
mines built and ready to fly
just missing a water rudder thats all....
i still think its going to be hard to tak off from the water
but goodness ts a nciue plane
running 2 3s 3700s in her
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Old Apr 07, 2014, 10:59 PM
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i will explain again
i have 2 seawinds
one is un constructed and i will probably sell as an electric conversion ready to build
the other is already built electric conversion

I need instructions or close up images of the water rudder and its construction and operation as i do not have a rudder for either planes
the guy that sold them to me never used them in the water!
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Old Apr 09, 2014, 12:22 PM
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Seawind water rudder

The picture shows the tail end of an inverted Seawind with the water rudder being the metal plate at the top of the picture. The water rudder has a maximum dimension of about 80 mm and is attached to a 3mm post which is sufficiently long to extend through the fuselage and be retained by a wheel collar. The post is split where it contacts the water rudder and is welded to the water rudder. It traverses the fuselage in a piece of tube which has an ID slightly greater than 3mm so that the rudder assemblly can rotate freely. The tube has been built into the fuslage so that it does not leak.

The water rudder exits the top of the fuselage in the area of the righthand (forward) notch in the rudder. It is secured in place by a wheel collar mounted to the water rudder post. The wheel collar has a piece of pianno wire welded to it at a 90 deg. angle to the rudder post. The pianno wire is captured by a "servo screw lock connector which has been mounted to a piece of plywood which covers the lefthand notch (rearward) of the rudder. No retaining screw is used in this connector as the pianno wire must move freely as the rudder is actuated.

The purpose of this setup is to allow both the water and air rudders to be actuated by a single servo. In practice, the water rudder is far too sensitive and for takeoff one must limit the water rudder travel to about 10%.

(Click on the picture to expand for more detail)
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Old Apr 09, 2014, 03:28 PM
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that is perfect thank you so mich for the detail!
appreciate this!

so how do you limit the rudder to 10% on take off
is this just one of the switches you setup
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Old Apr 09, 2014, 05:51 PM
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Yes, I use a dual rate on the rudder, 10% for takeoff + landing, 100% for all else. The proble with the Seawind is that using too much rudder on takeoff will cause you to catch a tip in the water and cartwheel. One way to limit this problem is to cut down the size of the water rudder.
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Old Apr 10, 2014, 07:21 AM
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Depending on your radio system, you can also have the capability to program "Flight Modes" such as "Takeoff", " Cruise", "Aerobatic", "Landing", etc.

Each can have its own setup, so dual-rates, expo, mixing and travel limits could be programmed for what you want. Flip a switch and you would be in takeoff mode, (for example: flaps partially deploy, gyro on the rudder channel engage, go high rate, etc.).

With Futaba I found this was relatively easy. Unfortunately I recently acquired a JR 10X with touch screen and this part of the programming has proven a bitch. Have someone coming over again this weekend to see if we can sort it out.
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Old Apr 10, 2014, 09:10 PM
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i can do that i have the Dx8 just different swtch levels

sounds like a good idea!
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