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Old Apr 01, 2014, 06:25 PM
mkpatrick
Joined Mar 2011
853 Posts
Question
Choosing a sail plane

My wife likes to pack up the dogs and go for a 2 hour drive to the ocean beaches. There is always usually a breeze there.
I'm considering buying a sail plane that has a motor with a folder prop and is at least 4 channel, I like using a rudder.
I'd like to find something that I can easily disassemble for the ride to the beach and back.
I have a Spectrum 9 channel radio so I'd need to go with a rcvr ready glider.

When I look at HK and other sites, I can't tell if they are easily broken down or not and I can't tell if they would have the capability to fly against a wind or not.
I've seen guys fly gliders and the thing that impressed me was how long they could fly. I can fly my electrics for 6-8 minutes only. Those guys are up for 30-40 minutes.

Just looking for suggestions from some folks in the know.

Also I've seen some EDF gliders, is this a good idea or not? If I get one, I'll likely fly at my normal field too, it has a black top runway, whats the thoughts on a glider with a wheel?

Thanks for any info, I really just wanted to get some opinions before pulling the trigger and finding myself with something that doesn't work well.
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Old Apr 01, 2014, 06:34 PM
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Joined Jan 2008
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Call SoaringUSA.com for good advice. They have a wide selection and are known for good service. They can tell you all about the technical features of any of their sailplanes.

If you are a neophyte, you cannot go wrong with the ubiquitous Radian: powered glider, available as either ready-to-fly or bind-'n'-fly, easily broken down for travel, lots of spare parts, rugged. Avoid the Radian "Pro", which is more expensive for more weight and more drag, but does not perform as well.

Even if you are already experienced flying electric (and it sounds like you are) the Radian is a good intro to soaring.

Yours, Greg
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Old Apr 01, 2014, 06:40 PM
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Joined Oct 2004
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Try Esprit model, really nice product line .
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Old Apr 01, 2014, 08:04 PM
mkpatrick
Joined Mar 2011
853 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by glidermang View Post
Call SoaringUSA.com for good advice. They have a wide selection and are known for good service. They can tell you all about the technical features of any of their sailplanes.

If you are a neophyte, you cannot go wrong with the ubiquitous Radian: powered glider, available as either ready-to-fly or bind-'n'-fly, easily broken down for travel, lots of spare parts, rugged. Avoid the Radian "Pro", which is more expensive for more weight and more drag, but does not perform as well.

Even if you are already experienced flying electric (and it sounds like you are) the Radian is a good intro to soaring.

Yours, Greg
Isn't the Radian a 3 channel?
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Old Apr 01, 2014, 08:31 PM
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United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
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http://www.skipmillermodels.com/Pass...sser-e-pnp.htm

Ryan
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Old Apr 02, 2014, 03:12 AM
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SpeedsterDEN's Avatar
Danmark, Nordjylland, Sæby
Joined May 2010
1,350 Posts
Go for Hobbyking Phoenix 2000.
Cheap, Great for sloping, and easy to land with flaps.


Now we have 11 in my rc club.
Some with and some without motor,
And we all love it.




Phoenix 2000 on the slope. (2 min 35 sec)


Playlist with all my Phoenix videos:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...bf-sM511-6fSSH

Cheers
S
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Old Apr 02, 2014, 10:51 AM
mkpatrick
Joined Mar 2011
853 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedsterDEN View Post
Go for Hobbyking Phoenix 2000.
Cheap, Great for sloping, and easy to land with flaps.


Now we have 11 in my rc club.
Some with and some without motor,
And we all love it.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PACp...KyGrbDAdJRDKww

Playlist with all my Phoenix videos:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...bf-sM511-6fSSH

Cheers
S

Wow!
Serious energy management there
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Old Apr 02, 2014, 12:19 PM
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San Diego area
Joined Jul 2006
500 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedsterDEN View Post
Go for Hobbyking Phoenix 2000.
Cheap, Great for sloping, and easy to land with flaps.


Now we have 11 in my rc club.
Some with and some without motor,
And we all love it.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PACp...KyGrbDAdJRDKww

Playlist with all my Phoenix videos:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...bf-sM511-6fSSH

Cheers
S
I am a RES man and like thermal machines like the Mirage that fly themselves. I haven't flown the slopes for quite a while. Mainly because my slope sucks (very small LZ and serious hazards on the entire slope).

But SpeedsterDEN motivated me to get a Phoenix2000. I am presently a slope woos and have an outrunner for emergencies; the winds on my slope are usually on the light side unless a Santa Ana is blowing.

My slope skills are presently at about 5% of SpeedsterDEN's; my goal is to get to 20%.

I just maidened my Phoenix2000. It is a very nice flying plane. But I am presently staying on the flat field until my landing skills increase so that I have a chance of consistently hitting a micro LZ either with the CROW or flaps.

But I think this is a very high quality foam plane with very good value when purchased from the HobbyKing USA warehouse. The non-electric kit even inclues servo extension wires and lots of hardware. I recommend it highly.

Craig
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Old Apr 02, 2014, 01:13 PM
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LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
23,499 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpatrick View Post
My wife likes to pack up the dogs and go for a 2 hour drive to the ocean beaches. There is always usually a breeze there.
I'm considering buying a sail plane that has a motor with a folder prop and is at least 4 channel, I like using a rudder.
I'd like to find something that I can easily disassemble for the ride to the beach and back.
I have a Spectrum 9 channel radio so I'd need to go with a rcvr ready glider.

When I look at HK and other sites, I can't tell if they are easily broken down or not and I can't tell if they would have the capability to fly against a wind or not.
I've seen guys fly gliders and the thing that impressed me was how long they could fly. I can fly my electrics for 6-8 minutes only. Those guys are up for 30-40 minutes.

Just looking for suggestions from some folks in the know.

Also I've seen some EDF gliders, is this a good idea or not? If I get one, I'll likely fly at my normal field too, it has a black top runway, whats the thoughts on a glider with a wheel?

Thanks for any info, I really just wanted to get some opinions before pulling the trigger and finding myself with something that doesn't work well.

Other people provide recommendations. I ask questions.



Type of flying - Are you planning to fly thermals or slope soaring? VERY VERY different sort of flying.

How Slope Soaring Works

http://users.iafrica.com/s/st/stevemac/afc/ssoar.html

Thermal Soaring

BIRDS, THERMALS AND SOARING FLIGHT
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/nature/q0253.shtml


A sailplane in thermal lift - Note this a RES glider, Rudder/elevator/spoilers - no motor
http://www.rcgroups.com/articles/lif...r/ava/Ava2.wmv



Budget - $100? $1000? What does that include?
Kit, ARF, BnF, RTF????

How big? 48" (very popular for slope soaring), 1.5M (60"), 2M (79") Bigger?

Material - Wood? Glass? Foam? Don't care?

What is your landing area like? Soft grass? Rocks and brush?


There are probably 200 options, all good and all valid depending on your answers. Having the information above will help us provide better advice.

For example, above someone said don't get the Radian Pro as it is heavier. But if you are going slope soaring, or if you are going to be thermal soaring with a strong breeze, the Pro would be my recommendation over the original Radian because it is heavier. However in soft breezes I like the Radian better for thermal soaring and for gentle slope soaring it is great.


You insisted on 4 channel. Why?

Most slope gliders are 2 channel. Add a motor and you get 3.

Many excellent thermal soaring gliders are 2 channel. Add a motor for 3.

Nothing wrong with 4 channel but flying a thermal soaring glider is NOTHING like flying a power plane. Oh the concepts are the same but in thermal soaring it is much more about reading the air than flying the plane. And for slope soaring, aileron/elevator is more than adequate for sport and aerobatics. There is no ground handling and no runway landing. Rudder/elevator is fine too but not as aerobatic.

So this is a new world and a different kind of flying from power planes. The only similarity between an electric launched glider and a power plane is that they have the same controls. But you fly them quite differently.
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Old Apr 02, 2014, 10:29 PM
mkpatrick
Joined Mar 2011
853 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by aeajr View Post

Other people provide recommendations. I ask questions.



Type of flying - Are you planning to fly thermals or slope soaring? VERY VERY different sort of flying.

How Slope Soaring Works

http://users.iafrica.com/s/st/stevemac/afc/ssoar.html

Thermal Soaring

BIRDS, THERMALS AND SOARING FLIGHT
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/nature/q0253.shtml


A sailplane in thermal lift - Note this a RES glider, Rudder/elevator/spoilers - no motor
http://www.rcgroups.com/articles/lif...r/ava/Ava2.wmv



Budget - $100? $1000? What does that include?
Kit, ARF, BnF, RTF????

How big? 48" (very popular for slope soaring), 1.5M (60"), 2M (79") Bigger?

Material - Wood? Glass? Foam? Don't care?

What is your landing area like? Soft grass? Rocks and brush?


There are probably 200 options, all good and all valid depending on your answers. Having the information above will help us provide better advice.

For example, above someone said don't get the Radian Pro as it is heavier. But if you are going slope soaring, or if you are going to be thermal soaring with a strong breeze, the Pro would be my recommendation over the original Radian because it is heavier. However in soft breezes I like the Radian better for thermal soaring and for gentle slope soaring it is great.


You insisted on 4 channel. Why?

Most slope gliders are 2 channel. Add a motor and you get 3.

Many excellent thermal soaring gliders are 2 channel. Add a motor for 3.

Nothing wrong with 4 channel but flying a thermal soaring glider is NOTHING like flying a power plane. Oh the concepts are the same but in thermal soaring it is much more about reading the air than flying the plane. And for slope soaring, aileron/elevator is more than adequate for sport and aerobatics. There is no ground handling and no runway landing. Rudder/elevator is fine too but not as aerobatic.

So this is a new world and a different kind of flying from power planes. The only similarity between an electric launched glider and a power plane is that they have the same controls. But you fly them quite differently.
I will likely just be doing thermal stuff. I wanted something powered because I want to be able to just power myself up there, then soar back down, hopefully catching thermals.
Where I normally fly, its a black top runway.
I wanted 4 channels because that is what I'm used to right now with planes and didn't want confusion. Plus I use side slip a lot with planes and saw sail planers using it too.

After seeing the video of the slope soaring, I can say, NOPE. That'd just be an accident for me.
I'm thinking more in the field of relaxed soaring. Basically an airplane guy attempting to make a battery last 30-45 minutes and attempting to along the way, learn to soar and catch thermals.
When my wife and I go to the beach, there would be sand to land on.
I don't care what its made of, whats more important is that it breaks down easily to put in the back seat for a trip to the field or the beach.

Thanks for the questions and thanks to everyone for their input.
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Old Apr 02, 2014, 10:48 PM
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LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
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OK, then I would recommend the Radian Pro for you. You can get it in a Bind and Fly version with a Spektrum receiver. Includes everything but the radio. Wings slide off and I believe you can also remove the h-stab. Has flaps but you could just tape them in place if you like. But your radio should handle flaps just fine.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...ro-bnf-PKZ5480


For casual beach flying you might want to consider an RTF package. Leave the fancy radio home. With a RTF you just grab and go. I have two Futaba 9C Super radios but one of my favorite thermal gliders is a Radian RTF. Everything is in the box. Nothing to charge and nothing to check. Grab and go. Alas it is only R/E/T
http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/radian-rtf-PKZ4700

Phoenix II
http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php...ghz-radio.html

Maybe a glider that is a bit more aerobatic.

Multiplex Blizzard. This is an ARF so you have some building to do. Will thermal in good conditions but will slope too. And, if you feel the need for speed this one can deliver.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...-arf-MPU214233

Note that I am staying with foam. If you are landing in sand but might hit a rock or such, foam will bounce, glass and wood will break. And if you do damage it foam can usually be fixed on the spot.


How do these sit with you as options.
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Old Apr 02, 2014, 10:55 PM
mkpatrick
Joined Mar 2011
853 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by aeajr View Post
OK, then I would recommend the Radian Pro for you. You can get it in a Bind and Fly version with a Spektrum receiver. Includes everything but the radio. Wings slide off and I believe you can also remove the h-stab.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...ro-bnf-PKZ5480


For casual beach flying you might want to consider an RTF package. Leave the fancy radio home. With a RTF you just grab and go. I have two Futaba 9C Super radios but one of my favorite thermal gliders is a Radian RTF. Everything is in the box. Nothing to charge and nothing to check. Grab and go. Alas it is only R/E/T
http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/radian-rtf-PKZ4700

Phoenix II
http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php...ghz-radio.html

Maybe a glider that is a bit more aerobatic.

Multiplex Blizzard. This is an ARF so you have some building to do. Will thermal in good conditions but will slope too. And, if you feel the need for speed this one can deliver.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...-arf-MPU214233
Wow the phoenix is 149 for RTF!
I call that a deal!
I had been looking at the Calypso in RR but I'd have to buy a full range receiver for it. The only advantage is, it has a wheel. This Phoenix would be that grab and go like you talked about but for the same price as the Calypso.
I couldn't tell from the ad if that is a full range rcvr? If I got it pretty far away, I'd worry if it were not.
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Old Apr 03, 2014, 07:24 AM
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LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
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Phase 3 Phoenix 2 Video
Note that the one I listed the Phase 3 Phoenix 2 above. Someone mentioned the Hobbyking Phoenix 2000. Two completely different aircraft.
Starting at about 2:30 into the video they show you how it goes together.
Note that the radio in the video is not included. They changed it but is fine for this glider.
Phase 3 Phoenix II (7 min 17 sec)



And since I mentioned it above, the Radian Pro which also has flaps. In the video they compare it to the wildly popular original Radian. The BnF version is what you want. It includes a Spektrum receiver, already installed, so you just bind to your Spektrum radio and you are done.

HorizonHobby.com Preview - ParkZone Radian Pro (7 min 40 sec)



Is this the Calypso you are looking at?
http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php...lider-rxr.html
Hobbico® Flyzone™ Calypso™ EP Glider - Action Shots (1 min 47 sec)


Note that the included free receiver will not work with your Spektrum radio.
Does not include battery, charger or a receiver compatible with your radio.

This version, the RTF, does include the receiver and radio and yes it is full range
http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php...lider-rtf.html


I almost included the calypso except that since you will be landing on sand or brush I thought the wheel might actually be a pain. But if you want to land it back at your home field on the runway it might be nice. The others you would land on the grass next to the runway.
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Old Apr 14, 2014, 01:34 PM
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United States, CA, Rancho Santa Margarita
Joined Jul 2006
1,978 Posts
Here are two more videos of the Phoenix II from Hobby People.
I have over 300 flights on mine. Thermals very well, and is at home on the slope.
Enjoy.

Phoenix II Slope'n Fun (4 min 42 sec)


Phoenix II Over SoCal (4 min 30 sec)
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Old Apr 14, 2014, 03:03 PM
mkpatrick
Joined Mar 2011
853 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by aeajr View Post
Phase 3 Phoenix 2 Video
Note that the one I listed the Phase 3 Phoenix 2 above. Someone mentioned the Hobbyking Phoenix 2000. Two completely different aircraft.
Starting at about 2:30 into the video they show you how it goes together.
Note that the radio in the video is not included. They changed it but is fine for this glider.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Pfrx8zhCuc


And since I mentioned it above, the Radian Pro which also has flaps. In the video they compare it to the wildly popular original Radian. The BnF version is what you want. It includes a Spektrum receiver, already installed, so you just bind to your Spektrum radio and you are done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDVpYsK9kww


Is this the Calypso you are looking at?
http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php...lider-rxr.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96TItfTRwsM

Note that the included free receiver will not work with your Spektrum radio.
Does not include battery, charger or a receiver compatible with your radio.

This version, the RTF, does include the receiver and radio and yes it is full range
http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php...lider-rtf.html


I almost included the calypso except that since you will be landing on sand or brush I thought the wheel might actually be a pain. But if you want to land it back at your home field on the runway it might be nice. The others you would land on the grass next to the runway.
The Calypso seems nice.
I'm also thinking of eventually using a TM module so I can know the altitude. Not sure how they report altitude, if its by GPS or its an actual pressure transducer.
I think a light kit might be nice too so I can see its orientation if I get it really high.
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