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Old Mar 07, 2013, 09:23 AM
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try a little different analogy

There is no small print on any of my literature, box or in the software. The large print says "FREE UPDATE" Gee! What do you think that means?

Yes, they made a contract with me on the original purchase. They told me that whatever version I had on the disc didn't matter because they had free updates for me. That is why I bought it.

OK you're right about the Ford comparison. Consider another analogy:

If I bought a Ford and they promised me free tune ups and if that Ford was undriveable as delivered but they promise to make it run the first day before I needed to use it.

When I first purchased Phoenix the LHS and HH, said "you must go to www.phoenix.sim.com to get it working. So in reality I paid for a version 2.0 or higher. I forgot what version that was on their website when I bought it. That version is what I really purchased and I accepted their word that it would be there on the internet .

I would not have bought anything as crude as version 1.05j. It really sucks. And WHY should I be stuck with it? Should my Phoenix disc be useless? Why not yours?

What I have in my possession is not the Ford that I purchased in good faith.

It is like a pedal-powered, 5,000 pound, evil handling, ugly, slow reacting, Pinto, with no brakes and a plugged up catalytic convertor.

My Phoenix would not work as well as when I first bought it because I would be stuck with v1.05j (not the 2.0 or ? that I went home to upgrade to the day I purchased). You would not be happy either if you had supported a company from infancy and then they threw you under the bus.

"FREE UPDATES" seem simple. How could anyone charge? I have talked to many people at the LHS and they ask which to buy: Real Flight or Phoenix?
And I have repeated "FREE UPDATES" as the reason to buy. The reason I did. But now? Am I a liar? Are those people to whom I recommended Phoenix also screwed?

I hope Phoenix does something to get my loyalty back. They are a good bunch but I can't recommend them anymore.

It's not about money. It's about integrity. I spend more than $27 on canopies every two months. NO more talk I gotta go fly.

Be well good people.
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Old Mar 07, 2013, 09:32 AM
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I'd still like to see the entire agreement. I'm sure it's addressed in some documentation you didn't care to read. There's more to it than what's written on the box.
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Old Mar 07, 2013, 09:50 AM
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They did not lie, you got your FREE updates in the past and still get them.
They no longer support the older versions, they have every right to do so. You just can't expect PhoenixRC to be your back-up source.

What will happen if they release v4.5 with a new dongle due to the piracy issue.............will you mail them and say hey my v1 says FREE UPDATE, so please send v4.5 with dongle??

Things change.............HH involved now, new rules.
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Old Mar 07, 2013, 11:53 AM
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Integrity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveapplemotor View Post
After 5 days I got an email from support that I could pay $26.95 to update if i had 2.5 or newer.

You got a response that had exactly what I needed. I wonder why they didn't tell me?

I ran my own business for 38 years. If I offered a coupon that stated "free" or "discount" then I honored it. PERIOD.

It is dishonest to change the agreement after getting someone's money. I don't care how old V1 is (or how old is the car I want to use).
Should I be penalized for supporting Phoenix longer than the people with version 1.06?

Your 4.? version is at least two days old. Why don't you pay some more money? They said "Free updates " to you, too. Are you willing to pay more for something that you already own?
I would be upst too if I couldn't update to the newest version as promised when I bought my copy. But think of it this way. If there were people making indistinguishable copies of your "free" and "discount" coupons, then using them in your store in droves, would you do something about it, or just go on honoring them all?

I think PhoenixRc is taking measures to contain the financial hemorrhaging caused by the ultra cheep cloned dongles that has been flooding the market lately. I can't blame them for that., even if that means some of us gets pinched in the middle.

What I find to be the best way to deal with these kinds of situations is not waist energy yelling about the injustice of it all to anyone who would listen, but rather try to figure out a solution by fostering sympathy and advise from others that may be in the same predicament. There are always those that are willing to help.

Perhaps without Jeffpn's snide comments, this thread may have take a different tone. Those that do not even own the Phoenix sim should just stay out of the conversation. You really don't have any claim in the matter.

I'm glad to hear that you were able to update your copy. When I first read of your plight, I went searching in my computer for the copies of the updates I have downloaded over the years to offer you. But, I see now that it's been resolved.

Parting advise. Download the updates as they become available and keep them as backup. No muss, no fuss. Ya?
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Old Mar 07, 2013, 12:54 PM
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So I have a right to an opinion only if you say so? I think not! This forum was created to discuss simulators, and that is what I'm doing. My question is a legitimate question. I have insulted nobody. I post without using words like "snide." If you don't want my input, take it to PMs. That's why they're there.

If Phoenix is telling their V1 users to copy a newer version from a friend, great! Nothing I say here can change that. If you're copying others discs or going to torrents to avoid paying Phoenix, shame on you.
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Old Mar 07, 2013, 07:08 PM
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thanks KC

Thanks, KC

Good advice.Make a copy. I will.

I posted here to make noise so that HH can read it and perhaps figure out how to treat loyal customers without giving the freebies to crooks. I enjoy the discourse and debate about HHs position on a guarantee. I see their point. They saved money-early on by not putting out discs with updates and attracted customers because of that business model. And now it bites them on the a$$.

As for snide remarks: I don't care what others think. Although if a snide remark seems to muddy a picture then maybe sometimes a reply is warranted so that others can have a clearer view. I have expressed my thoughts to help others.

I also posted here telling folks to protect themselves.
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Old Mar 07, 2013, 07:22 PM
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Don't confuse dissenting with snide. I am not blindly going to believe that Phoenix promised free updates forever since day one. Having never bought Phoenix, I don't have any documentation of my own to refer to. I'd like to see proof of the claim you are making. Claimed verbiage printed on a box is not proof. I'm pretty sure Phoenix has left themselves an out.
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Old Mar 08, 2013, 04:57 AM
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You got your free updates.............stop telling people you've been told a lie when you got v1. HH was not involved when you bought v1. Now HH is involved and things have changed, that's business.

You keep saying you are an old loyal customer...............how would they know? I can buy v1 too and tell people I have v1 so I'm a loyal customer...........

PhoenixRC never asked me money for anything, so I have a different story to tell.

Can't you just be happy they gave you all updates for free since v1? They might as well have called v2 an upgrade and charged money for it...............all these years FREE.

I have not seen many people complaining about this. But funny thing is, those who do never create back-ups.
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Old Mar 08, 2013, 05:35 AM
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Puzom

Hey Puzom:
What are you adding to this conversation? Ignorance? Can you read? Where did I say they lied with V1?

Please don't tell me what to do.
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Old Mar 08, 2013, 05:51 AM
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Read your "legalese" in the second paragraph of post #31.
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Old Mar 08, 2013, 05:57 AM
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You really want me to explain what you are typing?
Over at Helifreak you are even talking about betrayal................

PhoenixRC did not do anything wrong at all.
As I told you I got a totally different reply from them.............so different story to tell. They offer everything for free, and their support is superb.
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Old Mar 08, 2013, 06:28 AM
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post #31?

Is English your native language? post #31? You can explain what i was typing? You don't seem to understand because your viewpoint is so different.
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Old Mar 08, 2013, 10:18 AM
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go on honoring them all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
I would be upst too if I couldn't update to the newest version as promised when I bought my copy. But think of it this way. If there were people making indistinguishable copies of your "free" and "discount" coupons, then using them in your store in droves, would you do something about it, or just go on honoring them all?

backup. No muss, no fuss. Ya?
As a matter of fact, yes once I got stuck. I printed coupons that had no expiration and gave away more shop labor than I wanted to. I honored each coupon that was presented to me. I lost some money but gained customers.

The cost of doing business.

It is slightly different with Runtime Games because someone is counterfeiting. Why don't they say "send in you stuff and we will replace it for the cost of a disc and mailing" and "Your new disc will have some encoding that allows updates in the future." Those without the special coding can't update but maybe they must pay for each new site and aircraft. Get their money, too.

Business as usual after that with a little software protection because the hardware protection is gone.

BTW Skeptics
If I had gotten stuck with what ever version I really purchased the day I bought Phoenix I would be happy. It ran pretty well with no updates after that. But 1.05j on my CD was/is a useless place holder. It was not meant to be used as anything more than a platform to get an update from the internet.

Correct me if I am wrong on that, please, and tell Brad at Action Hobbies that he didn't tell me to go home and update the day I bought it from him if you want to continue being ridiculous.
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Old Mar 08, 2013, 11:29 AM
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You say "being ridiculous." I say "not blindly agreeing with you."

I will reserve judgment on the issue until I see the documentation that came with v1. I doubt I ever will, but I will not take your word for it. Why would Phoenix set themselves up for such a headache? Why would anybody send in a few dollars to get a copy current enough to update (I think I saw that is an option) if they are owed it for free? Too bad Phoenix doesn't post here like Real Flight, FSOne, and ClearView do from time to time. I'd love to hear their side of the story.
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Old Mar 08, 2013, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveapplemotor View Post

My version 1.05j disc shows a website for "free updates". I get error 404 when I go there.

_________________
What's the url? Really wonder what disc you have.
Can you run setup from this disc and install a working PhoenixRC build? (as your last post states the 1.05j disc you have is a useless placeholder)

And please do attach the image(s) you have of the box/disc etc.
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