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Old Jan 13, 2013, 05:24 AM
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United States, NC, Indian Trail
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Engine Makers

This is a question about different engine makers and there reliability.

Is there really any difference with the reputability between different manufacturers?

I currently only use OS engines, but there can be a big difference in price between the manufacturers, say super tiger. or thunder tiger vs os.

Whats your thoughts?
Rick
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 07:37 AM
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If you buy them new .. you can get warranty service if there is a factory defect in their equipment. Some are better than others as far as design and quality. All of them will wear out or require repairs along the way because they are a machine and machines need maintainence and re[air. The person working on them is probably as important as the "which brand is the best". If you are the one working on it ... and you understand how they work, ... you can tune them up and make them run reliable no matter what brand they are. Before you buy any engine, ... you could check availabilty and cost on a few of the parts that may require repair or repalacment; things like piston, crankshaft, cylinder? They wont usually wear out for a long time but if you did need to do a repair, you could see what that might cost you?

I think SuperTigre was a 2 year repalcement .... if you wear it out they would replace? I've never returned any and never bought any new engines from any brand. All mine have been used and I have quite a few different brands and types. The ones that were not running good just needed minor repairs and were easy to fix. They original owners were not able to figure out the problem so they sold the engine. One of the most common issues on these enginges are usually in the carbuerator even on a brand new engine. The right fuel, tuning adjustments, trash, or old fuel residue / build-up ... after repairs the used engines were as good or better than new.

I have plenty of SuperTigres, ... they all run great. I had to clean the carb on all of them ... and go through all of them but there were issues like: brass shavings inside the carb / fuel jets. One had silicone slivers in there. They wont fix theirself / you need to dis-assemble the carb and clean out the debris. Once cleaned out and the adjustments to the needles were set-up they run perfect.

The OS all seem to be good running engines: no issue so far.

I have a small Enya: 30 size or 40? It was a really smooth runner.

Thunder Tiger pro 46: seemed to be a really good runnung engine.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 08:00 AM
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The Top tier glow engine manufacturers are OS, Enya, MVVS, Irvine, Rossi, Picco, NovaRossi, OPS, Webra, HP, HB, Fox, K&B, Moki, Mark, Parra and Jett. Evolution is arguably in this tier of engine bands too. Italian Super Tigre engines are still top tier. Supoer Tigre moved their factory to China and they kept the quality up for a long time. But it is hard to say if the Chinese made Super Tigre engines ought to stay in this tier anymore.

You then have a middle tier and of course the lower tier engine manufacturers.
Some middle tier examples are Magnum, Thunder Tiger engines. ASP engines may be middle tier now too. ASP engines have improved a lot over the years. ASP and Magnum are made in the same factory in China. Lower tier are engines like JBA, CS, SC, GMS, et cetera.

One engine company in China, Sanye, makes something like 20 different brands of engines. But each brand is made according to contract requirements and what is required for quality and quality control. So sometimes they made really cheap low quality brand engines and on the other hand make really high quality top level brand engines too as well as engines in between. So the Chinese can make good engines and also make not so good engines. But it depends on what the buyer wants and the target price points, etc.

Sanye for example, uses a common crankcase mold for engines that uses a brand name or logo insert piece, so they can quickly change brands during production. I think these companies could make a custom brand for as little as a 250 engine production run too, maybe even less.

There are several model engine manufactuers in China that make or made different brands in their factories. Sanye, CS, JBA, NGH, and some others. Usually a model engine company makes other parts, like for the aircraft, military, or the automobile industry and thus makes model engines as a gap filler between the big contracts or sort of as a sideline for the company owners. Most all of the modern model engine companies use highly automated processes with CNC machines and those are quite expensive, so they have to keep the CNC machines running 24 hours a day if possible. They can also outsource a lot of the model engine parts to other facilities too. So some brands may actually be 100% outsourced and have final assembly and packaging done at one location.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 08:49 AM
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I'd move MVVS, behind Fox....
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 08:55 AM
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Thats some good info

So from here i will look into super tiger because both posts mentioned them.
the small engines it doesn't really matter because the price difference isn't much but when i start moving into larger scale and bigger engines the price swing can be major, like a couple hundred bucks difference

so thats what lead me to this post

Rick
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 01:04 PM
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Its the old Ford versus Chevy story, instead its OS versus Thunder Tiger versus Super Tigre etc etc.

Some thoughts,
Super Tigre parts are getting hard to come by and Great Planes hasnt a clue when they will arrive. They are even out of some engines like the G-51 and G90.

Saito parts are also getting difficult to obtain.

Thunder Tiger parts are still available and their engines in my opinion are excellent however Great Planes may not have much of a future for them.

OS parts are the most expensive of all, so much that if you destroy a piston and liner its almost as cheap to replace the entire engine since the cost of the parts is like half the price of a new engine.

I understand why the Japanese parts (OS,Saito) would dry up since they suffered a catastrophic disaster but the Chinese parts should not have been affected.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 01:14 PM
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It is very true that the replace rather than repair option needs to be considered.
If you replace the piston and liner at half the cost of a new complete engine, you not only have to do the work, but the bearings, connecting rod and valves (if a 4 stroke) are also part way through their service lives compared to a new assembly.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 02:46 PM
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talking about engines I bought this plane today (sat 13) for 50 bucks. just missing the servos. guy went electric and just didnt want it anymore. got a 65 saito 4 stroke in it. has good compression and fired right up with plenty of power.

i think it was a good score today seeing i like nitro
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 08:16 PM
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Screaming deal dude. My Saito 62 cost $254.99 at full retail.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broken Wings View Post
I'd move MVVS, behind Fox....
I'd include Saito in the top tier, and create another tier above that for Laser.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 06:50 PM
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Some guys have had good luck with Magnum/ASP engines (not me personally) and almost everyone that has run a Saito has had a good experience ditto for OS.

My personal experience with Thunder Tiger has been very positive but my experience with Super Tigre has been limited, my ST V60 is a good runner but my ST G40 needs a connecting rod that I cant find anywhere.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 02:56 AM
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my origanal post was due to an engine change in a trainer build i did. I have another post in the beginners fuel section (she finally flies). and after i flew this plane it was under powered, when it got into the air it was ok, but getting it off the ground was the challenge. I had my instructor do the first flight to see why I was having a problem, that's when we found that it needed more power.

It currently has an os .25 on it. if taking off on paved runway it came up to speed ok, but i just joined a club and there runway is grass. this put that little engine to the test.

Because im new to the sport. a lot of the older guys at the field, actually there all older then me at 46, have been very kind to me. they are all electric fliers. and have there old glow stuff that they just don't want. one of them gave me a field box along with starter, volt tester and a Super tigre .34 made in italy not china and its a heli engine not a airplane engine. the trainer doesnt have a cowl so it will be getting prop wash and im not sure that it will allow the engine to get up to proper operating temps. also i want to swing a 10x5-6 and not sure if it will cause problems or not. the g.34 airplane engine says 9x5-6, but its my understanding that the .34 heli has more hp and torque.

before I buy another engine for this plane Ill try the super tigre and see if that will do it
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 03:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffie8696 View Post
...my experience with Super Tigre has been limited, my ST G40 needs a connecting-rod that I cant find anywhere.
Jeff,


I suggest you contact "Frank Bowman" <ringmaster46@msn.com>.
Frank Bowman
1211 N Allen Ave.
Farmington, N.M. 87401-3568
505-327-0696


I know he's known here for his excellent piston rings; but I also obtained a con-rod for a Rossi .40-.53 engine from him.

It is of excellent quality and it was attractively priced; and he has them or can make them for other engines.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 09:13 AM
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I spoke to Frank recently about obtaining a rod for my older Fox 45 but he informed me is is just a little too busy with supplying rings to make a rod.
I can understand, his rings have a solid reputation and I am sure he is very very busy. I sent him a Saito cylinder for exhaust thread repair and the work was excellent.
Anyway since the engines are so cheap I will not waste too much effort trying to get the parts other than harassing Great Planes once in a while about Super Tigres.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffie8696 View Post
Some guys have had good luck with Magnum/ASP engines (not me personally) and almost everyone that has run a Saito has had a good experience ditto for OS.

My personal experience with Thunder Tiger has been very positive but my experience with Super Tigre has been limited, my ST V60 is a good runner but my ST G40 needs a connecting rod that I cant find anywhere.
You could always make one yourself. Many years ago I did it using a hacksaw, some hand files and a drill press along with some drill bits. I made a simple reamer out of some long bolts or screws for the hole in the rod. Now granted it can be done much nicer using a milling machine, but one can make a acceptable rod. Plus you don't really have to put in a bronze bushing either, it is just another nice feature if you do.
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