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Old Oct 22, 2012, 03:13 PM
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Outerzone is a wonderful site--thanks for all your hard work Steve. Please keep it up.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 10:29 AM
WMD
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Outerzone is a wonderful site--thanks for all your hard work Steve. Please keep it up.
Thanks Pat. That is certainly my intention.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 09:20 AM
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Another fan here. You've made it very easy to find things. A real treasure and a pleasure to browse. Thanks you all you are doing!

Jim
Ithaca, NY
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 05:14 PM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
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South-west France
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Further to my post #87 in this thread, I have now found my copy of the seventh of the "Model Aviation " series, this was simply called "Model Aviation" and was dated "Summer 1950". It was not as "plan rich" as some of the earlier ones, but still had five plans:

Battler - Class "A" C/L team racer by Ron Moulton
Hotshot - 3.5cc C/L stunt model by Ken Marsh
Squonk - 1cc pylon F/F power by Fred Deudney
Macchi 308 - 44" F/F scale model by Bill Blake
Gadabout Mk IV - 103" glider for slope or towline by C. Christianson

Plus the usual Model Talk and photograph pages, an article on Team Racing by Ron Moulton, one on glider aerofoils by Hans Pfeil and an engine test of the Albon Javelin 1.49cc.

As far as I know this was the last of the series, although a panel on the back page says "The autumn issue of Model Aviation will be published on or about August 20th (1950). Some of the designs already scheduled for inclusion are Roy Yeabsley's "White Cup Winner (rubber), an Allbon powered team racer by Cyril Shaw and a HOT pylon design for the Frog 500 by Jeff Moss" I wonder what went wrong?
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 01:57 AM
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USA, WA, Ellensburg
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You could argue that putting the whole plan onto 1 sheet makes it harder for builders. More work. It would seem to me ironic to print it out as a tiled pdf, sellotape it together, then start cutting it up again with scissors.

I have sometimes toyed with the idea of having 2 versions of each plan
Steve, I am prejudiced but I prefer a full sized plan. That gives me the option of getting it printed at a print shop or using the tile print feature that is now in Adobe Acrobat Reader. That gives me the option of printing a particular page or getting the entire thing printed. For that reason I fail to see the need for 2 versions of the same plan.
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 01:10 AM
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Outerzone actually *is* my filing system. So, myself I actively do not want a downloads folder with 3,457 pdf plan files in it. Because how would I ever find the plan I wanted, in the middle of there? So in some ways I almost feel I should be encouraging users not to download too many plans.

How many of us download a copy of every plan we see, for safe-keeping, and now have thousands? Actually, this may bore others, but to me the really really interesting bit is this: how do you find the one's that you want?
Steve, I agree with you in theory but having been on the web for decades now and having seen favorites sites vanish never to be seen again makes me download everything that might be of interest. http://www.archive.org has made finding content from old web sites easier but only if a web crawler ever went across the site before it went away.

Catalogueing of files is a mess as some people seem to think that every filename should start with the word "The" and that really makes indexing rough with every file starting with "T." And then there are those that stick the magazine name as the first part of the filename. I find the magazine name useful as part of the filename but not at the start. Again it messes up indexing and makes it hard to find.

Few of us have our own fileserver to use as storage. The personal cloud storage makes that nice but few of us backup those external hard drives acting as a cloud storage fileserver. A lot fewer back those up than backup their computer where they store files. Being a computer geek myself I know how hard it is to recover files from a failed hard drive...and how expensive it is to send a hard drive to a recovery facility when the entire drive mechanism fails.

It is extremely nice to be able to park them on Outerzone but that is sometimes unavailable when I go looking for it. Outerzone is a very valuable asset. Thank you for making it available.
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 01:18 AM
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Yes, I think ideally users could choose the style of files they want and leave the ones they don't. I mean there should be multiple versions of each file, so everyone is happy. That way if you don't like something, then you don't download it, you just choose a version that you do like.
Steve,

I agree fully with that and would like to see the DXF/DWG file as well as the full PDF but I also know that few of us have cad programs and even fewer make the cad file available when posting or uploading the plan here or on Outerzone. Both formats would be great as it makes it much easier to scale the plan if a different size is desired.

I also have Turbocad but do not use it. Turbocad is cheap and is more likely to be out there on some modelers computers than Solidworks or Autocad would be.
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 05:05 AM
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Southampton, UK
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Originally Posted by Mooney_Driver View Post
Steve,

I agree fully with that and would like to see the DXF/DWG file as well as the full PDF but I also know that few of us have cad programs and even fewer make the cad file available when posting or uploading the plan here or on Outerzone. Both formats would be great as it makes it much easier to scale the plan if a different size is desired.

I also have Turbocad but do not use it. Turbocad is cheap and is more likely to be out there on some modelers computers than Solidworks or Autocad would be.
Steve,
I am fully in agreement with the sentiments to file CAD DXF drawings as I have suggested earlier. Looking at the latest plans posted , it is fairly obvious that CAD is being used to produce the plans from scans, then cleaned up and converted to pdf for uploading and subject to your workload in cataloging and filing them in "zone", I cannot see any objection to storing these plans for use by those who can use them.
I was disappointed by the objections raised which were not really valid objections.

If you can take CAD DXF files on board with a CAD tag, can I suggest that you ask for future plans uploaded to be accompanied with the DXF plan if it exists. I shudder to think what the workload would be if you were to ask for all those who have submitted plans to upload the CAD versions. I would offer to assist but my database skills are non existant but one suggestion would be to ask for volunteers to assist in the following for dealing with plans already in the database in an orderly fashion

Ask for plan submitters to send CAD versions by private emails to specific volunteers based on alphabetic listing of plans - eg plans beginning with A -B get sent to Joe Bloggs, plans C-D get sent to bill Smith etc etc .
That way you could coordinate with only a few people to upload in an orderly manner for you to tag and file. Having put my head above the parapet, naturally I volunteer and hopefully another dozen or so will do so as well.

trust you had a good break

john
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 09:56 AM
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The beauty of getting them in dxf is that anyone with a cad program could take them and put them into cut files for a laser or cnc cutter to have parts cut. In PDF format, one needs to trace the plans before putting them in a cut file and that is very time consuming. However, I do find full size plans in PDF format the simplest to take to Kinkos and have plans printed. If they could both be published that would be the best of both worlds. Much thanks to all that are providing this service.

John
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Old Nov 05, 2012, 03:14 PM
WMD
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Am just back after a week away and catching up with everything, so sorry for the delay getting back to you.

To me it seems clear that DXF files should be made available wherever they exist and are available. I would guess off the top of my head that we are talking about less than 5% of the plans on Outerzone. Certainly safe to say that the great majority do not have any DXF file, because they, as far as I know, only exist either as a paper copy or a scan of said paper copy ie essentially as a bitmap.

I don't think we need a large campaign to sort this out, I think it will sort itself out over time. I'll set up the structure at this end, then we'll just add DXF files as we find them, or as they are submitted. No rush. But thanks for the offer of help. I appreciate that.

I see no usability problem with creating a slot in the listing where users (who wish to do so) can locate and download DXF versions of plans, where such exist. Other users can of course choose not to do so, as they wish.

More soon.
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Old Nov 05, 2012, 03:34 PM
WMD
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Bradford, UK
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Originally Posted by Mooney_Driver View Post
Steve, I am prejudiced but I prefer a full sized plan. That gives me the option of getting it printed at a print shop or using the tile print feature that is now in Adobe Acrobat Reader. That gives me the option of printing a particular page or getting the entire thing printed. For that reason I fail to see the need for 2 versions of the same plan.
Yeah, I'm not explaining what I mean very well. I guess my idea was that we all love to see a one piece plan, and we all like to view it that way on screen for... um situational awareness ... and general understanding of a design. I have no intention of changing that. I was more musing about how in a later (and more uncommon) 2nd phase, once we've decided to actually build a model, the delivery of the plan onto paper might be better implemented... I mean given that we all have an A4 printer and many of the component parts are small enough to fit onto A4 sheets, there is no reason to print out a single 4 foot x 3 foot sheet. That was the way they used to arrive in magazines, but there's no reason we have to package the same information in the same way now that we have an A4 printer instead of a postbox... Unless you want to frame it up on the wall and admire it, smaller sections would be helpful. And more importantly, errors from joining tiles would be avoided.

I appreiciate that this is not a great explanation. I guess I need to break a plan down like this (as I see it) for delivery, as an example to show people. This will not happen anytime soon, because I have more concrete and useful things to work on right now. And I also see no appetite for this from anyone but me, so far... which either makes me a great visionary, or an idiot. Not sure which just yet
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 12:52 PM
WMD
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I have another request for obscure information. Bib Fripp kindly sent me some info on Henry Struck 'Trailblazer' plans from Flying Aces, and he's particularly looking for these 2 'Unknown' missing plans, to complete the set. Anyone know what they are? I'm hoping we can get them all scanned and listed, in turn.
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 06:56 PM
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Soulles Normandy France
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The major problem with tiled plans is that unless they have been tiled from a dedicated tiling program such as isiplot or tileprint then often the tiles do not align accurately and require a lot of adjustment to fit as anyone who has tried to stitch a posted tiled plan together will know. The other advantage of these programs (both are shareware and very reasonable) is that you can also select any sections of the plan to print out instead of being restricted to the tiles in Adobe.
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 10:33 PM
Reduce the drama...
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USA, OR, Damascus
Joined Apr 2004
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Steve
Hope you would make a place for vector files.
Folks will probably want to share DXF, Rhino, Sketchup files.

Don't know if it's common knowledge, BUT
if a PDF is derived from a vector, program INKSCAPE can recapture the vector.
Open the PDF in INKSCAPE, save it as an EPS file.
Open the EPS file in CAD. Save in native format.
If it fails to open, it wasn't vector derived, or corrupted.
I like Al Hogal's PDFs because his CAD work can be re-captured.
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Old Nov 09, 2012, 09:22 PM
Balsadustus Producerus
Escondido, CA USA
Joined Jan 2001
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My next step toward the 21st century...

After downloading a few plans, notably the My Sparky from Model Builder as well as the 1940 Comet kit, I transferred them to a 4 gig stick and visited my local Kinko's, where they were pleased to print them out for around $8, including two more downloaded plans from Henry Struck; his Interstate Cadet and Rearwin Speedster. I bought a Horizon Hobby mini Airknocker replacement fuselage with the included receiver/servo/ESC brick and geared motor for the Cadet. Should be plenty--ought to be interesting.

I thought I might need backup prints for next time should I ruin these, when I remembered I have the digital version in the stick. I'll use my HP inkjet to copy rib and former patterns and I'll be on my way. I got an inkjet so I could print up the Japanese tissue as needed. Maybe that will work with the newer synthetic coverings such as Polyspan or the LW polyester coverings from FAI Model Supply.

What a time to be building model airplanes Thank you, Steve--this is great.
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