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Old Oct 03, 2014, 05:42 PM
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Canada, BC, Castlegar
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Help!
V22 Osprey Rotation Motor Update

Gentlemen :

I apologize for the confusion that my earlier post generated . I just threw out those pix in a willy-nilly fashion to see what would happen . Thanx for the great suggestions by V22chap and Blandano .

I hope that this proper posting will fill in some of the blank spaces .

As posted earlier , I had given up on this model some years ago as I could not find a solution to the motor / gearing for driving the engine nacelle rotation . Also , some of the data that I presented was not correct as I had done it from memory . The Osprey has a wingspan of 62 inches and a nose-to-tail length of 52 1/2 inches . The weight shown here is a shy of a modest 4 pounds .

The Osprey is made from Dow Styrofoam SM and is covered with 1/2 oz. fiberglass cloth and regular epoxy with a white automotive pigment in its mix . The rudders are made from balsa and are covered in red SolarKote . The features that I wanted to use include operating retract LG , cargo bay ramp / door and a cabin door for access to the electronix in the nose . I was planning to use a pair of Aeolian 3542C's with 60A ESC running from a 4S 5000mA battery . I feel that I am going to need a LOT of power on tap for the hovering as well as for the speed required to keep this wing flying . Not a lot of squares to deal with here .The flight controller was to be one of the KK2.1 boards . Most of the heavy construction is completed so I am down to doing the servo installation and electronix package to make her fly ; IF I can solve the rotation thing .

Please cruise thru the pix and feel free to comment as you wish . The pix kinda say it all as the bird sits now .

Thanx for the kind support and equipment suggestions for solving this issue .

Regards to ALL flyers : RickC_RCAV8R
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Old Oct 03, 2014, 06:06 PM
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This helps a lot .... that is one big V
Have you looked at the control idea that rotormast uses on his bird ??
He uses NO airplane surface controls ... everything is done with just 4 cyclic servos !!!! light simple and easy to do and the bird flies really great .... he also has a controller that does all the flight switching and balancing of nacelle angles and also allows you to adjust gyro gains all the way thru conversion ... only bad thing is the cost of his controller ,, 500.00
But you could use the same controls with the KK board ,,, it just depends on how scale you want to fly ... and judging from your fuse build I would guess that to be important to you

If you want I can dig out some pictures of my 280 motor / gear box / lead screw setup . I think I would try a moded large servo to control the conversion .

Good job so far ... keep going .
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Old Oct 03, 2014, 06:26 PM
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Thanx for your continued support as I go thru everything that I can read of the subject . Your link suggestions are proving to be made of GOLD ! It is making more sense now .

As for the scale-ness of the flying ; at this point , I would just like to see this baby become airborne without coming apart or suchlike . Flying scale would be a desirable aspect to attain . I m a bit worried by the size of my wing though . Scale type birds are notorious for not having enough squares for a decent flight . The plan of going over powered will undoubtedly be needed for the hovering and keeping a small wing flying .

I continue to research this solution as I complete some 3 other planes at this point in time . Thanx again . Rick
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Old Oct 03, 2014, 06:44 PM
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Wingloading on the V has no problems ... #1 you are not rotating off the ground .... you have none of that resistance to becoming wingborne ,, as you are already in the air ... #2 you are not going to be doing aerobatics and those are the only reason for worringmuch about wingloading . The full scale has something like 100 per square of wingloading .
Plus you have very ... very large rotors to pull the brick through the air ...... but here is your next and biggest problem with becoming wing borne !!!!! Normal heli props become air brakes at about the same airspeed that is needed to become wing borne and stay in the air with any size wing . Thus the need for twisted blades !!!! Rotormast did it with normal heli blades ,,, but he also uses motor amperage monitoring to control the collective pitch automatically so you can maximize your airspeed and stay in the air ... and I am not sure that your big bird would work like that .

With all that said ... flying the V at even 60 - 45 degree flight is awesome ,, and you will have fun with it even without making full conversion .
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Old Oct 04, 2014, 05:24 PM
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The direction of rotation of the V22 rotors actually increases the lift from that tiny wing, like on the flying pancake. Otherwise there's plenty of reasons why you'd want the rotors to spin in the opposite direction. It would be nice to have fore/aft cyclic and collective on the rotors, but even just collective would help a lot for cruise.
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Old Oct 04, 2014, 05:41 PM
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that brings up another question Rick .... are you planning on using cyclic controlled helicopter rotors or just airplane props !!!! As I used full helicopter cyclic and full airplane controls .

Brandano
I actually carried 14 lbs, rotating off a grass strip with a single airplane motor and prop with my small wing . 8lbs of that being bird
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Old Oct 04, 2014, 08:18 PM
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WOW , you guys really have me thinking about this in more detail now . I was planning to use regular airplane props to start out with as I do not have a lot of heli stuff available to experiment with . Set up a counter rotation sweeping inboard I guess . I thought about using one of the available mixes of the KK2.1 to set up an aileron to throttle connection . The idea was to slightly vary the overall motor speeds coupled with regular ailerons . Gotta do more homework .

Thanx for the suggestions guys ! Rick
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Old Oct 04, 2014, 09:00 PM
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helicopter cyclic complicates the setup ... especially in the kk 2/1 VTOL program ... but the hover is a whole lot better .

That said there have been a couple bicopter (twin airplane prop birds ) V -22's that hover really well and the last one handles wind pretty well .

Here is the url to Toms latest thread on his bicopter V-22 and there is a wealth of knowledge in this thread from a lot of great talented guys .

and bicopter would settle your conversion problems as the motor pods fasten to the servo direct !!!!
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2057761
good luck on this great adventure
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