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Old Feb 22, 2015, 12:55 PM
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Hubsan 107L and Propel related issues

Hey guys. I initially posted these questions in the wrong forum. With some luck, I'm in the correct place now.

Greetings all.

I started this hobby pretty recently with a JXD 392. It's still my favorite while I await the arrival of a 388.

Anyway my questions are concerning a Hubsan 107L that has a real need to drift right and to the rear. It will take off straight and hover straight for just a little while. As soon as I start making minor control inputs, it begins building up it's hard right and reward drift. The longer it flies the harder the drift.

Things that I've tried so far:

Removed the shell and ensured that main board screws were tight (they were). I padded both sides of the main board with sliced pieces of ear foamies and re-tightened everything. I've stretched electrical tape over the motor arms (an attempt to remove vibration as the cause) but it's still doing the same thing.

If there are any ideas as to what I should try next, I'm def open to suggestions.

Update: The consensus from another thread is that I should replace all 4 motors before troubleshooting further. I'm going to take that advise and report back.




My next problem child also Hubsan related:


A buddy of mine picked up one of those Radio Shack mini quads made/marketed by propel. It's basically a copy of the Hubsan with a few minor alterations. To make a long story much shorter, one of the motor outriggers broke. What we've done is to put the Propel main board into Hubsan 107L shell. It fits perfect and even the screw holes align. The radio that comes with the Hubsan isn't all that great IMO. It's like a cheap impersonation of a PS2 controller. The propel however, will bind with the radio that came with my 392 and also binds with the propel radio (very similar to the 392 radio). So in the end I'd have a Hubsan with a better radio.

The problem is that so far, flight has been very erratic. It's difficult to control since swapping the guts over to the new body.

My question about this project is this:

Would having only two of the navigation LEDs on one side of the main board, mess with gyro input at all? This one likes making a hard right. The propel had it's LEDs soldered directly to the main board. I've removed them and soldered wire harnesses onto two. I had to use wire from old motors for the two wire leads. They BARELY fit within the shell and I wasn't about to do two this way without better (and longer) wires. This quad has a pretty severe drift but it seems constant and doesn't build over time. I wondered if power draw from having two LEDs on one side might affect it?

Something else that is worthy of note:
All of the motors form the Propel went into the Hubsan body. They worked well in the Propel body but still have the potential to be tired or malfunctioning I suppose.



Thanks in Advance!
Noobz
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Old Feb 23, 2015, 09:51 AM
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When the gyro calibrates, its measurements are taken in relation to the initial reading correct?
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Old Feb 23, 2015, 10:23 AM
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I have the exact same problem with my first 107L. It did it right out of the box. I've calibrated it with 3 sheets of paper, which gives it a forward/left drift, but then it ends up with a hard rear right drift anyway.

I recently partially dismantled it (unscrewed the board, pulled the LEDS out, pulled the motors out) and painted it. Once I put it back together, it seems to have mostly corrected the drift.
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Old Feb 23, 2015, 10:54 PM
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Controlling the drift makes you a better pilot.
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Old Feb 24, 2015, 08:47 AM
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Controlling the drift makes you a better pilot.
Lol.. It'll need to improve my radio as well then. I've run it till there was no stick left.
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Old Feb 24, 2015, 10:28 AM
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Controlling the drift makes you a better pilot.
Controlling the drift is one thing, but if you need full stick to compensate, and when you let off, it goes the other direction like you gave it full opposite stick, something is wrong.
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Old Mar 07, 2015, 05:46 PM
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It's taken me a little bit to get back this but I put 4 brand new motors (Hubsan) into the Hubsan body and wired everything back up.

So here is what I now have:

4 Hubsan motors that appear to spin in their intended direction if I'm looking at it correctly. Looking down from the top of the motors, I have clockwise on the left and anti-clockwise on the right.

The Hubsan manual shows a wiring diagram along with polarity signs. I checked the polarity of the contacts on the Propel board with a multimeter. They are the same polarity that is depicted in the wiring diagram for the Hubsan.

So... Everything is same same but I wouldn't be writing all of this if were working. lol

I'm not sure what else to try. The only other thing that I can thing of is that maybe the rotation is judged from the bottom of the motor instead of the top? That doesn't really make sense to me because the polarity for the contacts on the two boards would be opposite.

Suggestions welcome!


Edit: Oh... I 'forgot to describe how it's flying. On just a vertical take-off, sometime is yaw rapidly to the left and other times to the right. This is all with no inputs other than throttle.
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Old Mar 07, 2015, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noobz View Post
4 Hubsan motors that appear to spin in their intended direction if I'm looking at it correctly. Looking down from the top of the motors, I have clockwise on the left and anti-clockwise on the right
Diagonal motors should spin in same direction and have the same propellers.

Adjacent motors should spin in opposite directions and have opposite propellers.

It will never fly correctly with CW motors on one side and CCW motors on the other side. It may lift off that way, but there will never be any reasonable control.

Take one motor, make it correct with correct propeller, then wire a diagonal motor to do the same as first. Then add an adjacent motor, make it opposite spin and opposite propeller pitch, and finally add last motor the same way. EVERY MOTOR must blow air down toward the floor.

Normal motors have red wire (+)
Reverse motors have black wire (-)
Think of it as red wire always (+) and black wire always (-).

Take some time and look at photos to get the first motor correct, then the others are easy.

If you can not figure out the first motor, then pick any motor and call it "correct", then wire the other motors. If you get it wrong, and all motors do push air down, then the Rudder, Ailerons, Elevator will all be backwards. You have even odds to guess the first motor.

---
Could try a simple way to fix, if indeed you have "clockwise on the left and anti-clockwise on the right":

Change polarity on the two front motors and then swap their propellers. Even odds that it will work. If not then undo that and do the rear motors.

Scientific way is to make (and you should already have two of these correct):
Front-left motor spin clockwise
Front-right motor spin counter-clockwise
Rear-right motor spin clockwise
Rear-left motor spin counter-clockwise
Then put the propellers on so they all blow air downward

---
If you can understand any of this then you have to change your "noob" status.
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Old Mar 07, 2015, 11:24 PM
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I already have the motors set at diagonal opposites.

They are wired and positioned exactly like this:

See Attach 1 and 2

When I flip the bird over and look at it top down:

Attach 3 and 4
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Old Mar 07, 2015, 11:25 PM
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Attach 4

I have only 2 LEDs installed. They are both on the left side. I don't know if having an unbalanced draw from an LED would have an effect or not.

The only other thing I can thing to ask is whether or not the gyro DEPENDS on which way the motors are turning.

Previously, I had the motors switched (diagonally). It flew but was near impossible to control for very long. This (the verbal description not the image below) is the way the motors were arranged in the Propel body. These were also used motors of unknown condition.
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Old Mar 08, 2015, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noobz View Post
Attach 4

I have only 2 LEDs installed. They are both on the left side. I don't know if having an unbalanced draw from an LED would have an effect or not.

The only other thing I can thing to ask is whether or not the gyro DEPENDS on which way the motors are turning.

Previously, I had the motors switched (diagonally). It flew but was near impossible to control for very long. This is the way the motors were arranged in the Propel body. These were also used motors of unknown condition.
"Previously, I had the motors switched (diagonally). It flew but was near impossible to control for very long." Swapping motors (and propellers) diagonally does not change anything except the color of the propellers front/back.

Is the circuit board a Hubsan or a Propel?

LEDs do not matter at all, unless you put too many on it.

The gyro expects all four blades and motors to be correct, else the motors and blades do the opposite of what the gyro (and control sticks) command.

You have all four blades on wrong and if the motors cause air to blow down, then all for motors polarity is also wrong.

You need to reverse all four motor polarities then swap the two blades on the right with the two blades on the left.

That motor polarity diagram has to be wrong if all four motors are blowing air down as currently wired.

---
As wired now, just swapping blades two right with two left, quad could very well fly upside down. Suggest you try this as it is easy enough to do. If it does fly OK upside down, then it is for sure that you have to reverse polarity on all four motors. Even if it does not fly OK upside down, you still need to reverse polarity on all four motors and swap right side and left side blades.

AND
Since all four motors are new (not broken in yet), running them in the unintended spin direction will make little difference in the lifetime of the motors.
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Old Mar 08, 2015, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noobz
"Previously, I had the motors switched (diagonally). It flew but was near impossible to control for very long."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribble View Post
Swapping motors (and propellers) diagonally does not change anything except the color of the propellers front/back.
Yes... This I understand. The diagonally opposed motors are the same. My wording may have been poor above but on this specific concept, we agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribble
Is the circuit board a Hubsan or a Propel?
The circuit board is Propel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribble
LEDs do not matter at all, unless you put too many on it.
Ok. This is good to know. I actually have two fewer LEDs than what it's supposed to have. I have the front left and rear left LEDs only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribble
The gyro expects all four blades and motors to be correct, else the motors and blades do the opposite of what the gyro (and control sticks) command.
This I think answers the question that I was trying to get at. If originally(out of the box):

The top left rotated counterclockwise then it must always have that orientation. The diagonally opposed motor will rotate in the same counterclockwise direction. The OPPOSITE diagonally opposed pair spin in the clockwise direction. I get this part. This I understood from the beginning but am not describing it well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribble
You have all four blades on wrong and if the motors cause air to blow down, then all for motors polarity is also wrong.
I don't think so and this is why: Using a multimeter, I matched the polarity of the Hubsan and Propel boards. I ENSURED that the contacts between both boards were the same. If you look at my attachment that has the wiring diagram on it, you will see some polarity notes. The positives are toward the center. Those notes are for the Propel and match the polarity on the wiring diagram in both Motor Position and Wire Color to polarity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribble
You need to reverse all four motor polarities then swap the two blades on the right with the two blades on the left.
This I think, is really the only thing left to try. When I put this thing together the FIRST time it was with the unknown motors. If I reverse the polarity though, I would also change the motor positions so that they spin in their intended direction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribble
That motor polarity diagram has to be wrong if all four motors are blowing air down as currently wired.
They are indeed ALL blowing down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribble
---
As wired now, just swapping blades two right with two left, quad could very well fly upside down. Suggest you try this as it is easy enough to do. If it does fly OK upside down, then it is for sure that you have to reverse polarity on all four motors. Even if it does not fly OK upside down, you still need to reverse polarity on all four motors and swap right side and left side blades.
I will try this. You do know that of the diagrams that I've posted that two of those images are of the belly and two are of the top correct?


The wiring diagram is a Belly Up view
The green is the Belly Up View of the quad

The Prop View diagram is from the top
The black side of the quad is the top

(If it sounds silly that I illustrated that it's because I want to be on the same page)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribble
AND
Since all four motors are new (not broken in yet), running them in the unintended spin direction will make little difference in the lifetime of the motors.
I do not think that this is correct. When I order the motors I order them in clockwise and anti-clockwise. When I do a single motor swap, it always spins in the direction that is intended. The clockwise spin clockwise and vise versa. The brushes are designed to spin in that that direction. There's more to it then just breaking it in one direction or the other. At least with motors that sold rotation specific.


Having said all of that, I think the only left to try would to be to reverse the direction of all 4 motors. I'll try the prop thing first and see what happens. Would be pretty cool if it ended up flying upside down. LOL

If it does, I'll physically move the motors so that they are spinning in the direction indicated by the vendor.


Thanks for all the help! I'll holler back once I find something.
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Old Mar 09, 2015, 11:09 AM
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I think that the motor brushes for these tiny quads are like this:

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Old Mar 09, 2015, 07:42 PM
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It's ALIIIIIIIIIIIVE! HaHaHaaaa!

@Ribble

The motors were indeed all running in the opposite direction from what they needed to be. So I swapped motors left to right and left their respective propellers attached to the motors (the ones that make them all blow down of course).

Put it all back together and fired it up. The thing flies great. It drifts a lot less than the my Hubsan with its own board. When I last had the motors arranged in this pattern, one of them must have been pretty beat up/tired.

I need to get another crash recovery kit ordered with feet. I borrowed the feet from the Hubsan and it smoothed out quite a bit. It has pretty much the same characteristics that the Propel had but with a lot more power. The improved 107L motors are a bit hotter than the one in the Propel. It's still very twitchy on the controls but it's a lot more stable in a hover and you just can't beat the yaw response. This might make for nice little Micro-Racer.

Thanks to every who helped and chimed in. It was all of the suggestion that got me thinking about it in the right way.

Once all of the dust settled I ended up with this:

A Hubsan 107L with a Propel main board that binds with Walkera radios. No more silly game boy controller. The idea was get this up and running in the Hubsan body because parts are cheap and easy to come by.
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Old Mar 09, 2015, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noobz View Post
A Hubsan 107L with a Propel body that binds with Walkera radios. No more silly game boy controller.
OK, now I understand.

It was not the Quad that caused your insanity, but the desire to use a better transmitter.

"ordered with feet. I borrowed the feet from the Hubsan"
OK, "feet" is a Chineese translation for something, but I forgot what.
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