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Old Aug 04, 2012, 03:19 PM
Hot glue held together by foam
United States, WA, Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightstone View Post
I'm going to try KFM and a few other ideas I have. I think this is going to be a nice transition plane for the faster jets. Bigger motor and slightly bigger elevons should result in a pretty fast agile twitchy plane.

Btw... the Ufo vid is cool and the hover craft is on my build list for the kids.

Nightstone
Awesome ! So you're thinking fast jets pretty soon - total adrenaline rush ! I have one that goes around 100 mph - I shake every time I fly it ! Quite the crowd pleaser , though !
If you have a place to run the hovercraft with a relatively clean , smooth surface ( tennis court? ) that's best . Running it in a parking lot might kick some little rocks up into your lift motor duct and nick up the prop .
There's a guy in Taiwan , Sam Wei , who made the hovercraft - and then made it FLY! Here's his video - I love how he taxis back in hover mode !
PICT1403 (1 min 11 sec)
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 04:20 PM
Registered User
USA, IL, Wheaton
Joined Oct 2010
566 Posts
Super Easy Taping

I'm hoping I have enough pop in my motor to get good flying on my full sheet Super Easy. I've added the reinforcing tape, spar and motor mount, and wanted to pass on what I've found about the weights these add.

I’ve decided to use my 4 mm CF tubing for the spar, since a piece of 3/32 inch music wire fits inside. I made the center joiner out of that wire and bent it to fit the wing dihedral, then I used 30 minute Epoxy glue to hold the assembly together. I made each arm 12 inches long to fit about 18 inches back of the nose, as shown in the picture, and it weighed 11 grams. When the Epoxy cured, I put a little quick drying (white) Gorilla Glue where the spar would sit on the wing and taped it down with the Scotch Extreme shipping tape.

I used some leftover Epoxy to help hold the motor mount in a groove on the top sheet of the nose. I also put some of the Gorilla Glue in the bottom of the groove. The motor, prop and mount assembly weighed 80 grams (2.8 ounces). I was careful to match the prop tips to the 15 inch line in the slot. I needed to trim the bottom corners of the “firewall” to match the dihedral in the wing.

The motor is a Topstar 2810-01C I found at a manufacturer’s booth at the Model Expo a couple years ago. The picture in Post #130 shows it a bit clearer. It’s made by Shenzen Topband Ltd.. Spec’s on line claim 150 watts power and Kv = 1200 rpm/V. In a test with a 9X5 prop, claimed current draw was 16 A from a 3S LiPo. It’s a little heavier than the one in the Dynam package from Hobbypartz. I like the well fitted look of it, but I’m not sure where to get another. I’m using an APC 7 X 5 E prop which should give me 17 ounces of thrust, if I can coax 10,000 rpm out of the motor under load.

When I taped the front edges of the wings and keel, I added a 12 inch long bamboo barbecue skewer to each, with a little Gorilla Glue drizzled behind the skewers. The three skewers weighed 6 grams. Total tape, not including the hinges was about 180 inches long and weighed 37 grams, about 2 grams for every 10 inches. The tape made a good job of confining the foaming glue under the spar and the skewers. Just don’t use too much GG.

Between the taped edges and the rest of the reinforcements, I added 54 grams, not quite 2 ounces this time. The motor assembly added another 80 grams, totaling 479 grams, a little less than 17 ounces. The whole assembly balances at about 17.5 inches back of the nose or 3.5 inches back of the target. I have about 6 ounces more electronic gear, including the battery, to distribute to get it all in balance. Next step will be to fit the servos.
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 05:51 PM
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For a Reference I just weighed my full size one. Its 390g with a 1500mah 3s. I'm using an FC 28-12 motor and a 7x6 prop. Its real fast. Being new it was faster than anything I had flown up to that point. Gave me quite a thrill.

730g Thrust on a 7x6. Excellent for a $6.45 motor.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=5423

Nightstone
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balsa or carbon View Post
Awesome ! So you're thinking fast jets pretty soon - total adrenaline rush ! I have one that goes around 100 mph - I shake every time I fly it ! Quite the crowd pleaser , though !
If you have a place to run the hovercraft with a relatively clean , smooth surface ( tennis court? ) that's best . Running it in a parking lot might kick some little rocks up into your lift motor duct and nick up the prop .
There's a guy in Taiwan , Sam Wei , who made the hovercraft - and then made it FLY! Here's his video - I love how he taxis back in hover mode !
]
That is one cool hover craft. My rc goal is to get decent at flying just about everything. I do like the speed though.

I'm wondering if I could make some kind of skirt for the hover craft. Something that collapses when in the air and fills up to cruise on the ground. Now that its in my head my brains going to solve it like it or not. A bigger skirt could give me some rougher terrain capability.

Need to think about it lol.

Nightstone
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 06:42 PM
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New Hampshire-seacoast area
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Hey nice design!

I saw this a few days ago and had to try it out. I only had some blucore so I made it to the original dimensions. I didn't put any spars on it, as I felt with the grain running across the wings it was stiff enough, and it was.

have an APC style 7x6 prop on a homemade Strongrc kit, 16 turns on a 1200 3 cell. the whole thing weighs 8.1oz with no battery.

It flew straight out of my hands balanced @ 14", and this thing is no slow poke!

It can do some nice even loops and some open barrel rolls on high rates, but will putt around nicely at 1/3 throttl.

I will get a vid of it next time out.

the only prob I had is I didn't use a servo Y harness, I put one elevator servo on ch4 and made it a slave to ch2. it worked fine but I had to trim it upwards a little and only the servo on ch2 would respond to my trimmer. So that made one wing rise a bit and turn opposite direction and had to trim rudder to get it to fly straight. So I will cut the length on a V harness I have and run them both on ch2 as you did.

I want to put my grandson on the buddy box, and not having any shannel mixing will make it much simpler.

thanks for posting the design, it flies sweet

One more thing, it really needs a color scheme to help out with the distance orientation, - out come the spray bombs!
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 07:40 PM
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Joined Oct 2010
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Nightstone
Thanks for the Info.
"For a Reference I just weighed my full size one. Its 390g with a 1500mah 3s."

Are you this light because you stripped the paper from your foam board? Al said you used a tape covering. How much did it weigh?

Nice Motor. It has the same 22 X 10 mm Stator size as the one I mentioned, and is running close to the same current with a 3S. Is your 7X 6 propeller a "Slo-Fly" one? You might be running just over the top rpm recommended by APC for that.

http://www.apcprop.com/v/html/rpm_limits.html

You might slow things down just a bit by going to an APC 7 X 5 E with an RPM max over 20,000.

Praymond

That BluCore one seems like a nice starting point for a wild color scheme, especially since it is so light. I figure it's 2 ounces lighter than Nightstone's and a whole lot lighter than mine. with the paper still on the board

Best of luck with your Super Easy's

Joe
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 07:49 PM
Hot glue held together by foam
United States, WA, Vancouver
Joined Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuPageJoe View Post
I'm hoping I have enough pop in my motor to get good flying on my full sheet Super Easy. I've added the reinforcing tape, spar and motor mount, and wanted to pass on what I've found about the weights these add.

Iíve decided to use my 4 mm CF tubing for the spar, since a piece of 3/32 inch music wire fits inside. I made the center joiner out of that wire and bent it to fit the wing dihedral, then I used 30 minute Epoxy glue to hold the assembly together. I made each arm 12 inches long to fit about 18 inches back of the nose, as shown in the picture, and it weighed 11 grams. When the Epoxy cured, I put a little quick drying (white) Gorilla Glue where the spar would sit on the wing and taped it down with the Scotch Extreme shipping tape.

I used some leftover Epoxy to help hold the motor mount in a groove on the top sheet of the nose. I also put some of the Gorilla Glue in the bottom of the groove. The motor, prop and mount assembly weighed 80 grams (2.8 ounces). I was careful to match the prop tips to the 15 inch line in the slot. I needed to trim the bottom corners of the ďfirewallĒ to match the dihedral in the wing.

The motor is a Topstar 2810-01C I found at a manufacturerís booth at the Model Expo a couple years ago. The picture in Post #130 shows it a bit clearer. Itís made by Shenzen Topband Ltd.. Specís on line claim 150 watts power and Kv = 1200 rpm/V. In a test with a 9X5 prop, claimed current draw was 16 A from a 3S LiPo. Itís a little heavier than the one in the Dynam package from Hobbypartz. I like the well fitted look of it, but Iím not sure where to get another. Iím using an APC 7 X 5 E prop which should give me 17 ounces of thrust, if I can coax 10,000 rpm out of the motor under load.

When I taped the front edges of the wings and keel, I added a 12 inch long bamboo barbecue skewer to each, with a little Gorilla Glue drizzled behind the skewers. The three skewers weighed 6 grams. Total tape, not including the hinges was about 180 inches long and weighed 37 grams, about 2 grams for every 10 inches. The tape made a good job of confining the foaming glue under the spar and the skewers. Just donít use too much GG.

Between the taped edges and the rest of the reinforcements, I added 54 grams, not quite 2 ounces this time. The motor assembly added another 80 grams, totaling 479 grams, a little less than 17 ounces. The whole assembly balances at about 17.5 inches back of the nose or 3.5 inches back of the target. I have about 6 ounces more electronic gear, including the battery, to distribute to get it all in balance. Next step will be to fit the servos.
Looks like it's all coming along GREAT! When's the maiden ?
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 07:56 PM
Hot glue held together by foam
United States, WA, Vancouver
Joined Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightstone View Post
For a Reference I just weighed my full size one. Its 390g with a 1500mah 3s. I'm using an FC 28-12 motor and a 7x6 prop. Its real fast. Being new it was faster than anything I had flown up to that point. Gave me quite a thrill.

730g Thrust on a 7x6. Excellent for a $6.45 motor.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=5423

Nightstone
Nightstone , I noticed that motor will run on 4s . Have you tried that yet ? Even MORE thrill ! If you have a couple of 2s batteries you can make a series harness and connect them in series to make 4s .
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 08:10 PM
Hot glue held together by foam
United States, WA, Vancouver
Joined Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightstone View Post
That is one cool hover craft. My rc goal is to get decent at flying just about everything. I do like the speed though.

I'm wondering if I could make some kind of skirt for the hover craft. Something that collapses when in the air and fills up to cruise on the ground. Now that its in my head my brains going to solve it like it or not. A bigger skirt could give me some rougher terrain capability.

Need to think about it lol.

Nightstone
I know what you mean , I like to try it all - even tried an RC blimp and an RC kite .
Made a couple of skirted hovercraft , they worked fine but liked to flip over backwards when they get going to fast . The skirtless one is a simple build and can go REALLY fast without flipping over - but doesn't do well on rough terrain .
RC blimp (1 min 47 sec)

RC thrust vector kite (1 min 55 sec)
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 08:21 PM
Hot glue held together by foam
United States, WA, Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by praymond View Post
I saw this a few days ago and had to try it out. I only had some blucore so I made it to the original dimensions. I didn't put any spars on it, as I felt with the grain running across the wings it was stiff enough, and it was.

have an APC style 7x6 prop on a homemade Strongrc kit, 16 turns on a 1200 3 cell. the whole thing weighs 8.1oz with no battery.

It flew straight out of my hands balanced @ 14", and this thing is no slow poke!

It can do some nice even loops and some open barrel rolls on high rates, but will putt around nicely at 1/3 throttl.

I will get a vid of it next time out.

the only prob I had is I didn't use a servo Y harness, I put one elevator servo on ch4 and made it a slave to ch2. it worked fine but I had to trim it upwards a little and only the servo on ch2 would respond to my trimmer. So that made one wing rise a bit and turn opposite direction and had to trim rudder to get it to fly straight. So I will cut the length on a V harness I have and run them both on ch2 as you did.

I want to put my grandson on the buddy box, and not having any shannel mixing will make it much simpler.

thanks for posting the design, it flies sweet

One more thing, it really needs a color scheme to help out with the distance orientation, - out come the spray bombs!
Awesome ! I'm glad your SUPER EASY flew well ! Definitely shoot that video next time - I'd love to see it fly ! I was surprised on my first one that the little tiny rudder could make it do barrel rolls . And the loops are fun - even going WITH the wind !
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 08:59 PM
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New Hampshire-seacoast area
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Ya i didn't think the rudder would throw it around so well either, but it does. On low rates and medium speed it is quite docile and trainer like.

There was no wind when I maiden'd it but the sky was heavy overcast with T storms coming in, so the bluecore was hard to see far away. I was thinking of just some yellow on one half, sides and top wing half.

paul
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 09:15 PM
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United States, AZ, Phoenix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuPageJoe View Post
Nightstone
Thanks for the Info.
"For a Reference I just weighed my full size one. Its 390g with a 1500mah 3s."

Are you this light because you stripped the paper from your foam board? Al said you used a tape covering. How much did it weigh?

Nice Motor. It has the same 22 X 10 mm Stator size as the one I mentioned, and is running close to the same current with a 3S. Is your 7X 6 propeller a "Slo-Fly" one? You might be running just over the top rpm recommended by APC for that.

http://www.apcprop.com/v/html/rpm_limits.html

You might slow things down just a bit by going to an APC 7 X 5 E with an RPM max over 20,000.

Praymond

That BluCore one seems like a nice starting point for a wild color scheme, especially since it is so light. I figure it's 2 ounces lighter than Nightstone's and a whole lot lighter than mine. with the paper still on the board

Best of luck with your Super Easy's

Joe
I saw this You Tube vid on this guy who was taking off the paper and then taping it with cheap plastic packing tape. The really cheap light stuff. he would then cut out his parts and build a plane.

When I built my Blu Baby I realized just how strong this made the foam. The main 33" wing has just tape and no supports of any kind and holds up fine. I did add one strip of heavy duty packing tape ( Kind with the fiber strands in it ) on both sides of the wing. I imagine if I was really pushing it it may collapse.

For the super easy there is so much surface area to supprt the taped foam that I needed no supports also. Just the light tape. So thats why the plane is so light and fast. Its scary fast. First flight the only thing I could say was Holy &^%^.

I also think with it taped there is less drag.

Another cool trick with the tape - When you do a UC wing you can put a strip of the tape under the wing and it will hold the uc shape. 3 strips of cheap tape will hold one side of the wing shape real easily. So the tape will hold bends in place.

I also use a hot glue gun that has a fine needle nose tip. This allows you to not over use glue and keep your weight down.

Lastly you can get the tape in different colors online and make cool patterns on the plane. Not to mention giving it color.

Nightstone
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 01:43 AM
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The Blimp was okay Al... But the kite was really cool. Sigh... Another project.

Nightstone
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Nightstone View Post
The Blimp was okay Al... But the kite was really cool. Sigh... Another project.

Nightstone
Sorry to overwhelm you with so much Nightstone! Check this one out - 19 foot wingspan ! INCREDIBLY low wing loading - so it's able to fly so slow sometimes it looks like it's standing still !
RC - VECTOR KITE 19 * 19' Delta Kite * Vector Control * (5 min 16 sec)
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 07:08 AM
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Adding tape to Super Easy

Nightstone

Thanks for the advice on taping. It can make a nice finish for foam. I have some experience with it. I bought some wire cut foam wing stock from Steelhead Products 2 years ago, and have made three wings with tape covering from it. I also covered a Hobby People Wasp wing that way. I found that I only added an ounce to a 2.3 square foot wing covered top and bottom with tape. That figures out to 2-3 ounces for the full sized Super Easy. I documented one of the wing builds here:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...ostcount=18031

One other of those builds was a Blu-Baby 42 with a 48 inch wire cut EPS foam wing.

I've had some cosmetic problems with taped wings, though. The 46 inch one developed a severe case of "alligator skin" sitting around. The air trapped under the tape made the surface go wrinkly. I used a heat gun to shrink the tape some and improved the looks a lot. The main trouble with the light, cheap tape is the adhesive. Running the tape across a dihedral joint can create a big bubble. Better to do each panel separately, I think. To get it to stick well, you might need to spray the foam with additional adhesive.

Getting back to the Super Easy. I think that any strategy to make it lighter would better suit my needs for a controllable, low speed plane. Don't want to get into the "It got heavier, so I got to put on a bigger motor to make it faster" thing that makes a plane hard to train with. Stability enters into this, too, so if it is self righting you don't need to slow it down quite as much. I started with the paper covered board because it looked so simple, and I wasn't sure how much strength it would lose taking the paper off. Still have high hopes for it, but am looking at alternative methods if necessary. I have a scale, and want to be guided by the design principle of "Adding Lightness" if I can.

Joe
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