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Old Dec 06, 2012, 11:56 AM
aka ECAA3D
m0dest's Avatar
United States, WA, Olympia
Joined Apr 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolfRC View Post
Are you in New Zealand?

I agree on the scheme...I already have a blue/white/red on the 60, which is why I wanted the red/white/black on the 91.
No. Washington state.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 12:01 PM
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Very interesting, especially in light of the Washington and Colorado legalization of another substance, but a subject for another thread.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 12:10 PM
aka ECAA3D
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United States, WA, Olympia
Joined Apr 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolfRC View Post
Very interesting, especially in light of the Washington and Colorado legalization of another substance, but a subject for another thread.
...............
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 12:29 PM
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United States, MN, Minneapolis
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Hey, regarding cost of this bird, I am going with the DA60, but milehighrc carries a EME060 60CC motor for $349.

I'm going with the DA60 engine for the same reason, and more, that I stick with torque motors on EF planes: The torque motors work, and I want to get the tried, true, and tested version given my lack of experience.

The bonus with the DA60 is: it made or at least assembled in the USA (which I wish more hobby companies would try harder to do--which is different than saying making things in the U.S. would be finanically feasable--just a wish on my part).
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 01:57 PM
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United States, WA, Olympia
Joined Apr 2012
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Yeah I'm going with the DA60.

DLEs seem very solid at around half the price, but I'd rather take a bit of time with the build and get what I want. The skies are not going to be that pretty up here for the next couple months anyways. I barely got in 2 flights yesterday.

I can't afford the 104" with a DA120 without losing a body part.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 09:14 PM
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High Prairie, WA
Joined Nov 2007
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I got my 91 a couple weeks ago and have been working on it in my spare time. Unfortunately I'm waiting for DA to get the correct header back in stock, so even if I had an abundance of time right now, it would still be a while until I flew it.

Eric at B & E Graphix did an awesome job as always with the graphics, but I decided to change the EXTREME FLIGHT on the wings and have a new set on the way. The blue 'tails' on the stars on the bottom of the wing are custom. I had some midnight blue Ultacote and wanted to make the bottom pop a little more.
Everything is looking great and I'm excited!
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 09:15 PM
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A few more pics:
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 09:31 PM
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Wow, nice.

I'm spying on your servos...did you have to custom order those aileron servos from Japan. Wow, the servo specifications look awesome. You could probably use those MP82TWV servos to flap the wings and leave the motor off.

Nice touches on the control surface arms. Are they just painted, or aftermarket, or a new feature?

I am so excited to be getting mine, I'm tempted to drive down and pick it up...

Also, daniel, do you use telemtry? I think I will move my TM1000 over to this. Get the optical tac sensor. I have a brushless sensor right now but I don't really use it.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 09:55 PM
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I ordered all the servos straight from Horizon and they're all available to anyone! Yes, those MP82T servos are amazing! They're brushless and have some really cool features such as a slow-start-up.

The control horns are all stock, just painted.

I've never used telemetry, but it would be cool. I like to keep things as simple as possible and for most cases like these, it's just more weight.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 01:41 AM
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Hi Daniel,

thanks for the nice pics. Can you tell me what length the servo arms have you used (i want to order some secraft)...

Thanks!

Greetings from Germany

Marcel
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 11:37 AM
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1.75"ers on the ailerons, 2"ers on the rudder and a 4" offset double arm for the rudder.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 01:21 PM
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Considering the power of all of those servos, do you strengthen the wood where they are mounted? I know in the end something has to be the weak point, the control surface, the hinge, the control horns, the control arm, the servo gears, or the wood. But I'm wondering, with that much servo power, do you strengthen the wood where you mount them.

I am also wondering how such powerful servos are powered through what looks from the photos to be a standard sized servo cable. On an oscilliscope with an ammeter, I'm guessing these things have to be pulling between 5-10 amps for some short period of time. I'm almost tempted to double the power/ground wires/connections via an additional heavy duty servo wire/connector, with a cap near the servo. The servo manufacturers are possibly constrained by convention and history, but at some point servos of this type of power are going to need lower inductance on the power (heavier gauge, twisted). I of course am not a servo designer so I might be overthinking this. Putting a capacitor near the servo might help during step input changes on the stick, but could also hurt during power up due to the effect on inrush current. Does futaba have a U.S. or english based tech support....I guess I should call and ask them since these are technical questions most users don't second guess.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolfRC View Post
Considering the power of all of those servos, do you strengthen the wood where they are mounted? I know in the end something has to be the weak point, the control surface, the hinge, the control horns, the control arm, the servo gears, or the wood. But I'm wondering, with that much servo power, do you strengthen the wood where you mount them.

I am also wondering how such powerful servos are powered through what looks from the photos to be a standard sized servo cable. On an oscilliscope with an ammeter, I'm guessing these things have to be pulling between 5-10 amps for some short period of time. I'm almost tempted to double the power/ground wires/connections via an additional heavy duty servo wire/connector, with a cap near the servo. The servo manufacturers are possibly constrained by convention and history, but at some point servos of this type of power are going to need lower inductance on the power (heavier gauge, twisted). I of course am not a servo designer so I might be overthinking this. Putting a capacitor near the servo might help during step input changes on the stick, but could also hurt during power up due to the effect on inrush current. Does futaba have a U.S. or english based tech support....I guess I should call and ask them since these are technical questions most users don't second guess.
I know you are an engineer and therefore inclined to ponder these types of questions, but by the time these planes get to market (especially the bigger gas planes) we have tested them throughly and considered all of this. This plane has been in development for 2 years. It has been flown as hard as anyone will ever fly it by the likes of Daniel and Michael Holman (these 2 guys probably put 100 flights on this plane while staying with me this past summer), Donatas Pauzuolis, Chris Jewett, RJ Gritter, Devin McGrath, and myself, with a variety of equipment. We feel very confident in our recommendations on how to equip the Extra and you can save a lot of time and effort and worrying by using the recommended gear. The gear that is available today is powerful, fast and reliable. When I started flying giant scale gas planes in 1995 the king of the hill in servo technology was the JR 4721 which if I remember correctly had about 120 oz/in. of torque and used nylon gears! I had a 38% Cap 232 with 2 of these on each aileron, 2 on each elevator half and 4 ganged for the rudder! Today we have servos approaching 500 oz/in. of torque that are faster and more reliable. The equipment is no longer the limiting factor, it's the pilot.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 02:40 PM
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High Prairie, WA
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I always drop some thin CA around the mount, but that's it.

The servo wires are all 22awg and don't seem to have any problem. For the elevator servos, I'm using 20awg twisted HD servo extensions being that they're 48" long.

As Chris said, everything has been tested very rigorously and you don't have to worry about anything. For what it's worth, we're still running 6 year old JR 8611a servos on our 5 year old 88" Extra and they aren't lacking. Everything in my 91 is overkill but I'll use most of the servo power.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EXTREME FLIGHT View Post
...
We feel very confident in our recommendations on how to equip the Extra and you can save a lot of time and effort and worrying by using the recommended gear.
....
Considering the source (EF) and my experience with your reocmmendations (every one of them has worked out well), I am not doubting them, and really appreciate the recommended setups.

But...I was mostly wondering about the servos. They are still using servo connectors that they were using a long time ago. The fact that the same 5 amp servo connectors and untwisted wire are still being used on 350-400 oz. in. servos raises my eyebrows. And a servo that probably has enough power to pick up a DA60 off the ground surprises me too.

I had a guy who builds several 100cc planes a year recommending the FUTM0715 servo (145.8 oz/in of torque) for a 50cc plane up to 92 inches wingspan. Pretty good deal at $40. But he doesn't fly extreme flight yet so he might not know the extreme throws that are possible with this plane.

So, I am trying more to understand the whys behind things, and possible reasons for failures.

I will say, since I've started flying EF planes, I have never lost a plane for anything other than my dumb thumbs, which is the way I like it.

UPDATE: The guy who gave me the advice based his advice on the assumption that there were two servos per aileron...so it isn't *that* bad after all. Still, I trust Chris.
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