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Old Jan 12, 2016, 12:30 PM
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Keeping up with the 4D'ers

RJ Gritter 3D Freestyle Flying at E-Fest 2015 (4 min 2 sec)


So I'd like to make a glider do what this plane does at 2:30 or so, only instead of using a reversible pitch propeller I'd like to use giant ailerons and massive vertical slope lift (Fermin)

My first thought would be to use a wingeron setup but I'm not sure how I could get enough throw on the wings to achieve the auto-rotation effect that I'd like. The other option is to use massive counterbalances on the wings, however there are obvious disadvantages here in normal gliding flight. Maybe drooperons?

I'm going to build a plane to achieve this soon, but I just wanted to put my thoughts out there to see if you guys can come up with any suggestions
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Old Jan 12, 2016, 01:08 PM
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Do you mean transform between fixed-wing and rotary-wing in mid flight?
Like these:
http://science.dodlive.mil/2013/02/1...g-transformer/
http://www.gizmag.com/hybrid-rotorwi...p-rotor/27092/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-50_Dragonfly
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Old Jan 12, 2016, 01:14 PM
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I mean counter-rotating the wings or ailerons to produce enough roll to slow the descent when the plane is pointed straight down.
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Old Jan 12, 2016, 01:24 PM
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"4D"? Is that what a 3D plane becomes when it reaches 88 miles an hour and gets hit by lightning?
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Old Jan 12, 2016, 01:48 PM
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I think the difference is that a glider relies on momentum to throw itself into maneuvers via gravity to gain speed, whereas the electric plane uses the prop to provide momentum, in this case it does it in both directions. Another issue is this is indoor with no wind, which makes it easier to balance the plane on its tail/nose. With wind blowing both into and up the slope it will be hard to keep it in one spot. You'd almost have to have the wings pivot enough so it auto-rotates with the fuse vertical, like this little helicopter https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...2o0&ajaxhist=0 Probably not impossible but itll take some thinking ...
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Old Jan 12, 2016, 01:58 PM
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Here is one way to counter-rotate left and right wings about the spar.
Similar to two-piece wing with a spar joiner, and the wing's angles of incidents counter-rotate about the joiner.

Rotating tube spars:
One fixed round tube spar glued to fuselage.
Rotating tube spar glued to inside of each wing (symmetric airfoil).
The fixed tube spar is nested inside left and right rotating tube spars.
One servo rotates a wing up 80 degrees, and another servo rotates the other wing down 80 degrees.
Maybe nylon bushings glued to the fixed spar.
Pins to keep the rotating tubes from sliding off the fixed tube spar.

In a dive, transitioning between fixed-wing and rotating-wing is straight forward.

Another idea:
Add lead weights to the wing tips for additional inertia.
Get the glider spinning fast in a vertical dive, then give the wings 100 degrees pitch, like the collective pitch on a helicopter.
With enough energy stored in the inertia, the glider could go up tail first, with only gyroscopic effect keeping the tail pointing straight up.
I don't know it that would actually work, but it looks cool in my head.

Instead of lead weights, could put servos or batteries in the wing tips.
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Last edited by wolfv; Jan 13, 2016 at 11:20 AM. Reason: Added lead to the wing tips
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Old Jan 12, 2016, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly Wheel View Post
"4D"? Is that what a 3D plane becomes when it reaches 88 miles an hour and gets hit by lightning?
The Lightning was just a power source for the flux capacitor because they didn't have anything else capable of producing 1.21 jigawats

Good ideas so far wolf, keep them coming !

The only way I can think of pulling it off Jordan would be to build the plane as light as possible & fly where there's a lot of vertical lift & not much blow-back like Fermin in 5-15 mph
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Old Jan 12, 2016, 06:55 PM
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Justin:

I think you have it figured out.

Big ailerons with huge throw.

A light build

A vertical lift site.

You can do it!

As you know, I have been able to do hovering flat spins and flips with Le Fish light and Buzz Evo at Mormon Lake Overlook. A hovering down line roll should be possible. Maybe a split rudder (to add drag) would help. Or maybe a two servo elevator setup, so you could add additional roll input (taileron?)

Dawson
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Old Jan 13, 2016, 10:30 AM
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Make a split wing, with dual aileron servos on each side, use dual servos to split the wing and retract, (cheap micro servos), it would be a full size air brake. or you could do split wing tips.
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Old Jan 14, 2016, 07:19 AM
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I have a wicked wing I can almost hover nose down. It's about 600g so only good in stronger breezes. A light build would work better. I have big control surfaces split top and bottom, open for air brakes or they work together as ailerons elevators. Awesome for pilot combat as you can slow it down fast.
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Old Jan 14, 2016, 07:33 AM
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This is my evo version. I cut 30mm off tha back of the wing then have 100mm control surface at wing tip. The balsa control surfaces are not stiff enough I need to make carbon ones. you need good hinges other wise it's to hard to keep trailing edge together to limit drag.
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Old Jan 14, 2016, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gazasmith View Post
This is my evo version. I cut 30mm off tha back of the wing then have 100mm control surface at wing tip. The balsa control surfaces are not stiff enough I need to make carbon ones. you need good hinges other wise it's to hard to keep trailing edge together to limit drag.
yes, Something similar to this, but the entire wing is the air brake.
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