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Old May 09, 2012, 09:44 AM
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KK board questions and other questions about quads

Alright so I made a big mistake when flashing my new KK board with the KK multicopter flash software.

I selected a firmware, but I forgot to select a firmware type before I clicked on the flash button.

Just before I clicked "flash" my screen looked like this:



As you can see, instead of showing the firmware type, it's set to "all firmware types."

As you can imagine... It didn't work. And now it won't work at all anymore. This is the message I get if I try to flash my board with any configuration:



It says check the fuse or use -F to override this check.

What does "use -F" mean?

Should I just toss this board and get a new one?

If you have any idea how to solve this problem, please post. I would appreciate it a lot. If I don't hear anything from anyone in the next 4-5 hours, I'll just order a new board because this is beyond my ability and I have a feeling I bricked it good. Plus, the board is, thankfully, inexpensive.

Thanks in advance.

Best,
Chris
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Last edited by bobepine; May 11, 2012 at 10:55 AM. Reason: Changing title to make the thread more useful in general
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Old May 09, 2012, 10:40 AM
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It did that to me when the drivers of the avrusb were improperly installed or when I didn't select the right programmer or board in the list
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Old May 09, 2012, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ulkar View Post
It did that to me when the drivers of the avrusb were improperly installed or when I didn't select the right programmer or board in the list
OK, so how did you fix it?

This is not my first KK board, so I know the drivers are properly installed. Had no issues with the first board because I did not forget to select the firmware type.

Thanks for the response.

Best,
Chris
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Old May 09, 2012, 10:59 AM
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OK... This is weird. Same board purchased from the same vendor... They are both identified as 5.5 versions. The first board I flashed fine, I selected the 5.5 controller and it worked. The second board was a no go. I just tried flashing it with atmega 168 controller instead and it worked.

I think I'm in business. I won't know for sure until I get whatever else is in the mail coming my way to get this aircraft built, but I have a good feeling about it. I think it worked.

Thanks again, Sir. Your post led me to try different things.

Bestest,
Chris
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Old May 09, 2012, 12:20 PM
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These things are real finicky, I had issues with fuses not setting when I first got the HK KK, after waiting a while and fiddling around, it worked.

You can't really brick an ATmega with programming, even incorrectly set fuses can be recovered with a lot of work; but you can by connecting the programming plug wrong! I completely missed the top row of pins on the ISP header when not paying attention......and got one dead ATmega.
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Old May 09, 2012, 12:30 PM
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Yeah flashing a wrong firmware / wrong settings will not kill an atmega. the only thing that would kill it is wrong connections feeding current to the wrong pins.
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Old May 09, 2012, 02:50 PM
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Or changing the high and low fuse bits can also break them, if you change it to external clock for example you won't be able to program it again without an external clock
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Old May 10, 2012, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by vcazan View Post
Or changing the high and low fuse bits can also break them, if you change it to external clock for example you won't be able to program it again without an external clock
but technically its not broken.
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Old May 10, 2012, 08:35 AM
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Hmm well on my laptop, the first time I used the avrusb programmer I plugged it into a usb port, I installed the driver and it worked. The second time, I plugged it into a different usb port and it would do the same error as the one you were getting. Then I plugged it into the first port, and it worked again
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Old May 10, 2012, 09:36 AM
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Oh....krut..

i can just see this all going the wrong way when i receive mine, i ordered this one:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ga328_PA_.html

with the programmer cable, as this is my first quadcopter, forgive the questions. (i've been flying normal helicopters for many years)

Will i have any issues running the software that comes with the board installed, why would i want to upgrade the firmware and to which version ?

i'm using 30 amp blue series esc's and park450 (890kv) motors running 10.4.5 props.
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Old May 10, 2012, 09:48 AM
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You won't have any issues using the default firmware, just that it's a + firmware. The main reason people change the firmware is to be able to run the quadcopter in X mode.

I tried several firmwares and the one I found the more stable with the less gyro drift is the 4.7 but it's a bit difficult to tune, though compared to multiwii it's quite easy, and the maker of that firmware, kapteinKUK made a good tutorial video to explain how to do it
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Old May 10, 2012, 10:00 AM
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thanks ulkar,

Is there any tips that can be given to me (setup wise), i really don't have anymore cash to spend on this quad, so i have to minimize any mistakes i'll make.

Also is it true that i have to get into the air quickly with a quad as opposed to slowly easing off the ground like i do with my helicopters ?

Someone said something about the gyro's having a hard time stabilizing the quad if one takes off slowly.
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Old May 10, 2012, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Axefly View Post
thanks ulkar,

Is there any tips that can be given to me (setup wise), i really don't have anymore cash to spend on this quad, so i have to minimize any mistakes i'll make.

Also is it true that i have to get into the air quickly with a quad as opposed to slowly easing off the ground like i do with my helicopters ?

Someone said something about the gyro's having a hard time stabilizing the quad if one takes off slowly.
Hi Axefly,

I suggest you look at this website for instructions on how to use the flash tool. You will need the USB programmer to flash your copter if you want to fly something else than the +copter configuration such as Xcopter. http://lazyzero.de/en/modellbau/kkmulticopterflashtool

Do not worry about the instructions about modifying connectors to connect your board to a USB. The USB programmer should come with the proper connector. If you plug it backward, it won't work but nothing will break. The kk flash tool(software)simply will not work. turn the plug around the other way and it will work. You need to download the software and the drivers for the USB programmer and they are both available, free, at the link provided above.

As for needing to take off the ground fast, this isn't really true to quads. Quads are quite resilient to what we call "ground effect." It's with CP helis that one wants to get off the ground quickly to avoid gyro issues and difficult take offs. Quads can lift off slowly with no issues.

I hope this helps.

Best,
Chris
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Old May 10, 2012, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axefly View Post
thanks ulkar,

Is there any tips that can be given to me (setup wise), i really don't have anymore cash to spend on this quad, so i have to minimize any mistakes i'll make.

Also is it true that i have to get into the air quickly with a quad as opposed to slowly easing off the ground like i do with my helicopters ?

Someone said something about the gyro's having a hard time stabilizing the quad if one takes off slowly.

Well, with mine there is just a slight ground effect and that doesn't affect piloting at all so I wouldn't worry about it at all.

What you must do is get the KK manual and do all they say and double check everything WITHOUT the props. I made the mistake of doing some stuff with them on and broke a few.

A good way to make sure everything is ok. You plug only escs one after each other on the board, only one at a time, and you make sure that it is correctly placed and that the gyros are having the right behaviour.

For example you plug top left esc to the board on M1, then you arm the board and try rolling, pitching, etc. If it's not doing the right thing then it's on the wrong plug on the board, then you try M2 and etc until it's the right one. Then when it's on the right plug on the board, you plug it, put a little throttle and tilt the quad on the pitch or roll axis, if it doesn't compensate by throttling up on the motor when the motor goes down as it should, you have to reverse that particular gyro axis, which is well explained in the manual.

Also having a good throttle curve and good dr exp for roll and pitch makes it easier to learn to pilot.

I think that the main problem with those toys is that, when you start with it, you don't know much how to tune everything, and it makes it harder to pilot while at the same time you're trying to learn how to pilot it ! That's why it can seem difficult at first, but then again it's a lot of fun mainly, you just have to be very patient
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Old May 10, 2012, 06:58 PM
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Thank you both ! i will get the manual and do as you say...

i'm saving this post for later need, i'm used to cp heli's, so it would be nice for it to behave like a normal heli for that is what i'm used to.

I heard that it's best to add some rubber grommits between kk board and frame to reduce vibration, is it a good thing to do or not really necessary ?
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