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Old Dec 09, 2012, 10:00 AM
Somewhere lost in Texas
United States, TX, Flower Mound
Joined Jan 2011
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How To - Basic noob questions

Hello,

New to the Sailplane World, but not to RC.. I have a basic question regarding flight modes and how they should 'look' like.. I am setting up 4 modes with my x9303.. They are: Launch, Speed, Cruise, and Thermal..

Would anyone know of a source for some pictures or video that shows what these are supposed to look like when active.. ??

Here's what I have setup so far and these are just guesses..

In Launch Mode I have all surfaces in a neutral position with not much mixing.

In Thermal mode, I have a few degrees of down aileron and flaps with a bit of elevator.

In Speed mode, I have a couple degrees of up aileron and flaps with some elevator. I notice I pick up a lot of velocity in this mode.

So that leaves Cruise.. Any pointers or recommendations?

I am practicing on my Radian Pro till I get my 'new' used Shadow rebuilt.

many thanks,

Paul
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Old Dec 09, 2012, 10:09 AM
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Woodstock 1's Avatar
Ireland, County Kerry, Kerry
Joined Dec 2005
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Hi Paul!

Is there any particular reason why you want to have flight modes? They really aren't essential unless you are competing. They just constitute something else you have to remember... Camber adjustments (reflex and camber) can be permanently on a slider, which also gives you a finer control as then it will be proportional. Elevator compensation for camber is possible with most decent radios.

Chris
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Old Dec 09, 2012, 11:21 AM
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IHAVAWDY's Avatar
United States, MT
Joined Mar 2008
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You have launch & cruise confused? Cruise should have neutral controls ( minimum control inputs ) Launch, depending on launch method; winch requires a few mm of lowered flaps and (slightly less) ailerons w/ elevator compensation. Highstart is usually launched in cruse mode, unless wind allows for a higher pull w/ launch mode... YMMV Welcome to the world of sailplane's, the cool way to fly.
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Old Dec 09, 2012, 11:22 AM
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cityevader's Avatar
United States, CA, San Jose
Joined Mar 2012
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I flew my Radian Pro quite a bit before selling it off, and had a blast with it on the slopes too. IMHO it's just not enough plane to utilize flight modes, per se.

Crow/butterfly (flaps down/ailerons up with down elevator compensation) is pretty important (landing mode?) and I preferred it proportional on the throttle stick with the actual throttle merely on/off with a switch. (if plane pitches with throttle on, then elevator mixed in could be called launch mode?)

Camber on a side slider is really really helpful, and I think but not sure, that you're radio can do full span camber too. If it has a center detent, it would then be able to do higher lift camber OR higher speed reflex with one proportional control input. (will take experimenting for elevator compensation).
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 03:08 PM
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Paul:

I'd say you are probably on the right track. Also, that most of the advice you've been given is pretty appropriate. There are many ways of doing things, and I've seen all the ones mentioned here.

For a Radian Pro, I'd advise your "Launch" and "Cruise" modes to be pretty much the same. Obviously, from your comments, you see a noticeable increase in speed with the trailing edge a bit up. Neutral is probably pretty fair for cruise, and you might consider trying your thermal mode in launch - I assume you're launching with the motor, right?

If you put the camber on a slider, like some one else has suggested, you can make straight runs and evaluate how much camber up or down affects either speed, sink rate or both. Because that's the ultimate measure: what performance do you want, and what performance are you getting?

Good luck!

Yours, Greg
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 08:17 AM
Somewhere lost in Texas
United States, TX, Flower Mound
Joined Jan 2011
298 Posts
Thanks for the responses, your advices are much appreciated... I know the RP is a pretty 'basic' plane, however since my TX has all these cool features and will be upgrading to a more airworthy ship soon, it seemed the best way to become familiar with FMs, was with a foamy.
I've setup flaps/elevator/flaperons on the throttle with the motor on the RH timer switch. I haven't figured how to put the the flaperons/elevator on the slider yet, but still fooling with it.
However, I've grown to like the motor on the switch, but will probably replace the switch with one that is spring loaded (normally off), so I don't have to remember whether it is turned off or not..
We have a huge landfill, within driving distance of my house (our only big hill) which we slope on.. Lots of fun, but occasionally stiinky.
I will try swapping Cruise and Launch modes as recommended.. More experimenting is needed...

thanks,

-Paul
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 08:31 AM
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United States, CA, San Jose
Joined Mar 2012
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It is a "full-house" bird that you should fully set up.
It's only "basic" mostly because it is draggy with little energy retention.
However, it will benefit from full-span ailerons (mix set up on/off switch) as well as full span camber (not more than 3mm down from neutral...reflex may or may not help)
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 01:20 PM
Somewhere lost in Texas
United States, TX, Flower Mound
Joined Jan 2011
298 Posts
Yes, the full-house setup is definitely the way to go.. I have set it up with full-span ailerons with camber in thermal mode and reflex in speed mode.. very cool..
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 01:22 PM
Somewhere lost in Texas
United States, TX, Flower Mound
Joined Jan 2011
298 Posts
I've also heard that some differential would also be beneficial, but have to experiment with that. Not really sure how much to add though..
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 10:45 PM
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Differential ailerons, I presume.

I suggest setting up the ailerons to be equal, up and down, at first. If you are adept at rudder, you will find yourself correcting yaw with rudder more or less automatically. If you wish to bother less with the rudder, the usual approach is to start to dial in differential so that the down-going aileron travels less - up to about half the up-going aileron. There is no magic number, so don't worry - just experiment.

If you try it, do it in small portions. Although typically, there will not be large changes in behavior as differential is added or removed.

FWIW: I use differential only on my largest airplanes, but I'm a confirmed rudder-is-for-yaw-control kind of guy. There are varying schools of thought on this (ranging from "who cares" all the way to "you'll burn in hell if you don't use differential"). I don't argue with any of the various schools of thought.

Yours, Greg
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 07:45 PM
Mark LSF # 3792
United States, TX, Garland
Joined Nov 2008
540 Posts
Paul,

Launch mode should be, for a pure glider, at least close to full span trailing edge down. I try to set mine up for launch with no elevator preset, hopefully "hands off". I just fly the airplane up the line using aileron, rudder and elevator, then "ping off". For differential I use no down aileron in launch mode and maximum aileron to rudder mixing.

For thermal I'm a slider guy and have only recently with my SD10-G started using float as another setting. I notice you do not state in both thermal and speed where the elevator preset is. So, that said I fly the elevator and the slider when thermaling. Again, no elevator preset, which makes me fly the pitch to what the airplane wants.

I set my Supra for speed (reflex) per the TE settings that apply to Dr. MD's design of the Supra airfoils. With these settings I found that a slight amount of up elevator preset was required to minimize the airplane wanting to continue to increase in pitching down. This could mean I fly with my CG further forward than Dr. D recommends.

My Perfect does not do this to the same extent with the TE settings from the Samba site for speed. Also, yes the speed does build and the airplanes do "get on step" not unlike a boat getting on plane. They both cover ground quickly in this mode, "all the better to escape the evil sink".

That leaves cruise mode. My thoughts are that this mode is/should be clean normal airfoil configuration. In this mode you should want to optimize the lift to drag, maximize lift and minimize sink rate numbers. Most current airfoils are designed in clean/neutral mode to maximize these factors, the classic in the "drag bucket" setting. Others will probably have additional input, but it all depends on what works for you.

BTW, I see you are in Dallas, don't know if I've met you. Check out the SLNT website, just Goggle SLNT, sign up for our e-mail notifications and come join us for one of our fun flys. We are also planned to have a couple of contests this coming Sunday at Eastfield College.

Mark
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 09:15 AM
Somewhere lost in Texas
United States, TX, Flower Mound
Joined Jan 2011
298 Posts
Thanks for the input, Soarmark... Yes, I believe we have met and spoken a couple times. I have flown with SLNT and plan on joining, but just haven't yet.. I've done some sloping at the landfill and flown many times at the 407 field. I haven't met up on the Sunday contests due to work conflicts. However, in short, this is exactly what I was looking for.. At least now, I have a starting point to work with..

many thanks, --Paul
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 04:22 PM
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Hostage-46's Avatar
United States, TX, Highland Village
Joined Jan 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchitagain View Post
Thanks for the input, Soarmark... Yes, I believe we have met and spoken a couple times. I have flown with SLNT and plan on joining, but just haven't yet.. I've done some sloping at the landfill and flown many times at the 407 field. I haven't met up on the Sunday contests due to work conflicts. However, in short, this is exactly what I was looking for.. At least now, I have a starting point to work with..

many thanks, --Paul
Paul I expect our chat today helped?
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 05:56 PM
Somewhere lost in Texas
United States, TX, Flower Mound
Joined Jan 2011
298 Posts
Indeed, it did, although it's still fuzzy around the edges.. Reacting to what the plane, birds, and wind are trying to tell you, I find it fascinating..
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 01:18 PM
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Gil Gauger's Avatar
Vincennes,IN USA
Joined Apr 2007
649 Posts
Modes

Being in the thermal forum I assume you are setting up launch mode for winching. Just another description to help organize your thoughts:

Cruise/Normal: Wing in section, elevator preset/trim for best L/D, throws to taste. Fly the plane as designed, smack in the heart of the low drag bucket.

Speed/zoom: Wing reflexed (make the bottom of the wing 'smooth', see Rob Glovers metal ruler method), elevator preset for best L/D

Float: Camber preset, (again try the metal ruler method of making the top of the wing smooth as a starting point) elevator preset toward minimum sink setting (best Lift-cubed/Drag-squared) I personaly don't use this mode as I prefer camber slider and elevator to camber mix. May experiment with the preset more this season, as dead air float seems to be my weakest skill.

Launch: Extra trailing edge droop, elevator preset to compensate for tow- hook placement may be required. Remember in this mode we are not gliding but actually in powered flight. For TD, 15 degrees or more may be helpful in minimizing winding in winch line/ building and holding tension. For F3J less camber is valuable for minimizing time on tow.

My unlimited plane is a V-tail and I have no elevator presets programed, but I know how to get it if I need it. It is my style to fly the plane instead of flipping switches, launch being the exception. YMMV. In your environs I expect wind penetration will bias your cruise and float settings toward faster flight than I usually face here in the humid/low wind air of my neck of the woods.
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Last edited by Gil Gauger; Dec 20, 2012 at 01:19 PM. Reason: typo
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