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Old Jan 15, 2013, 01:35 PM
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Australia, NSW, Bradbury
Joined Dec 2007
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Originally Posted by theothercliff View Post
The reason that I bring it up when it is mentioned is that I want to help newbies understand that you can painstakingly and less accurately add shims of some sort, or you can click a button to easily and accurately do the same thing.

Change it with a button: It takes less than 10 seconds to change the number in the KK2 menu. Like it better the way it was? Change the number back and it flies exactly the same as it did before. Know you need a lot of roll and just a little pitch? Just add 3 clicks of roll this way and 1 click of pitch that way. Don't be scared of it, if you adjust it the wrong way, just go in the other direction like you would with shims.
Aggree whole heartedly with "theothercliff" here, the S/L acc adjustments are there for this very reason, no other. I have over a dozen of these KK2.0 F/C's and all of them fitted to different birds, tri's, quads, hexs and octos. No two of them are tuned the same, even the ones running identical frames, motors, esc's and hardware, each machine needs to be tuned idividually.

I do the acc calibration as close to level as I can, then fly and trim each and every one of them as close as possible to hands free level hover with the S/L "off", then turn the S/L on and use the acc trims in the S/L menu to get them to pretty much do the same thing.... hands free hover! That's what it's there for.

Switching from acro to S/L and back again should see no major changes if this process is done correctly. Shimming F/C's and/or motors is doing essentially the same thing....manually, why bother when the F/C is designed with these adjustments available to do it for you..!

For a cheap F/C board with pretty good acro and self level ability, battery voltage monitoring capability, camera gimble capability.....and with the ability to tune them in seconds at the field without lugging a laptop along with me....you can't beat them in the bang for buck race IMHO.
Hence why I have so many of them.... and I'd rather have fun flying than spending a lot of time with my head stuck in a laptop tuning any other F/C board. Yes, other F/C's are good too but for ease of use....you cant beat the KK2.0.

I like to do autonomous and waypoint type flying as well, for this I use an APM2.5 Arducopter F/C running the latest firmware, it's more than five times the cost of the KK2.0 and yes it also has GPS, waypoint, RTH and altitude capability etc, but to be honest, in acro and self level modes, it's no better than the KK2.0. In fact I believe the KK2.0 beats it in this area.

Rant mode off/

Cheers,
Smithy.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 05:16 PM
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United States, CA, San Diego
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Ok I'm probably gonna get blasted for this..but it sounds like these acc trims are the way to go for self level adjustments...I've never used them before....what's the trick?
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 06:31 PM
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I really wanted to stay out of this ACC trim vs. shims method discussion, but I just thought I should mention that one of the videos on the first page describes how to perform the shims method and this is probably what the newcomers are gonna see. It is also mentioned in this video that the ACC trim values should be kept at zero to keep the copter from going nuts.

I tried entering a small value for ACC pitch trim to compensate for backward drifting (had no sideway drifting at all) on one of my T-shaped copters and it actually did go crazy when I activated SL. It would sometimes go forward AND right and sometimes forward AND left at an alarming rate after activating SL with a value of 5 for ACC trim pitch. This was on firmware version 1.2 btw. To cut a long story short: Only the shims method worked for me.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 07:53 PM
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United States, NY, Wolcott
Joined Nov 2004
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Originally Posted by RC911 View Post
I really wanted to stay out of this ACC trim vs. shims method discussion, but I just thought I should mention that one of the videos on the first page describes how to perform the shims method and this is probably what the newcomers are gonna see.
Yep that's what I saw and did. I used a 2' level across the prop shafts and got the craft dead level on all axis with that method before calibrating. I had an ever so slight forward drift with 1.5 using this method. So slight in fact that entering a value of 1 in the acc trim was more than needed for compensation and the craft would then drift slightly rearward. I needed a value of 0.5 or so to properly compensate. Its really a futile attempt to shoot for perfection though as I am sure temperature variations and what not will cause variation anyway. I don't spend my whole flight hovering so its really moot. As long as you are close, its all good.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 07:54 PM
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United States, CA, San Diego
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I should mention that my quad will hover hands off as is when not in self level..if i flip to s/l mode it wants to barrel off and it's not easy to fly...i did make sure all was level when i calibrated it...but it could be off...

I haven't adjusted any of the self level pid's yet...they are still stock
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 08:06 PM
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Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
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Originally Posted by SDSURFnGLIDE View Post
I should mention that my quad will hover hands off as is when not in self level..if i flip to s/l mode it wants to barrel off and it's not easy to fly...i did make sure all was level when i calibrated it...but it could be off...

I haven't adjusted any of the self level pid's yet...they are still stock
I have the opposite. In self level shes hands off. Out of it, it slides away. I need to do the opposite.

BTW, did a tumble test this week end. Took it up about 200 ft, power off into a tumble for 100 ft, then power back up (with self level on). It was amazing to watch it right itself into a stable hover. I was impressed.

Ken
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 08:12 PM
Stop me before I build again!
United States, NY, Albany
Joined Sep 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDSURFnGLIDE View Post
I should mention that my quad will hover hands off as is when not in self level..if i flip to s/l mode it wants to barrel off and it's not easy to fly...i did make sure all was level when i calibrated it...but it could be off...

I haven't adjusted any of the self level pid's yet...they are still stock
Are you sure your trims are correct in the receiver test? If you are not on 1.4 or 1.5 self-level is not that impressive.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by brontide View Post
Are you sure your trims are correct in the receiver test? If you are not on 1.4 or 1.5 self-level is not that impressive.
Ya...I'm on 1.5 and made sure trims were at 0 during receiver test too...I'm sure i just need to mess around with it a little more...i was just seeing what advice everyone had....

Thanks everyone for the suggestions...i will just keep adjusting until it works how i want.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 11:54 PM
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Can of worms..??
Firstly I didn't miss any points. the problem with text only conversations is they can be inturpreted many ways and this can be a big problem in "how too forums"
Im not saying dont use acc trims, Im saying, build your air craft straight and true, set it level, callibrate the acc and you dont need to use acc trim or at least I dont.
I cant afford a dozen multi rotors but the four that i have, have all trims at zero-zero they will hover hands off in either accro or Sl. (maybe I'm lucky?) With my first kk2 1.4 I got so frustrated trying to trim a slight drift with the acc trim I gave up, even increasing a value up to 150 made no difference.Im sure most of us KK2 owners would agree, tuning the FC can be somtimes, very hit and miss i.e. set it fly it set it again and fly it once more over and over. Theory is great but it doesn't always go that way in practice. As for teaching newbies.... KISS !!! I have logged over 1100 hrs as a qualified instructor on a buddy box teaching newbies to fly and I know the biggest killer of people new to the hobby is confusion and frustration. Listening to somone rant technicalitys as if they are teaching experts will drive a learner away very quickly. Engineers and craftsman know that facotry made model aircraft rarely come in perfect condition and will need tweeking to some degree in order to have them perform as we prefer. Scratch builders have only them selvs to blame if thier aircraft is not perfect. I can't remember the other critisism I coped but I stand firm, The code space taken up by acc trim and height compensation could be better utilised.

Pete. xxx
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:52 AM
Specializing in RC since 1972
Temple, GA, USA
Joined Jun 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC911 View Post
I really wanted to stay out of this ACC trim vs. shims method discussion
...
It would sometimes go forward AND right and sometimes forward AND left at an alarming rate after activating SL with a value of 5 for ACC trim pitch. This was on firmware version 1.2 btw. To cut a long story short: Only the shims method worked for me.
Self level is broken in version 1.2. I know it works in 1.4 and 1.5. I am not sure about 1.3
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 01:35 AM
Custom Multirotors
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Australia, NSW, Shellharbour
Joined Aug 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesy40001 View Post
Can of worms..??
Firstly I didn't miss any points. the problem with text only conversations is they can be inturpreted many ways and this can be a big problem in "how too forums"
Im not saying dont use acc trims, Im saying, build your air craft straight and true, set it level, callibrate the acc and you dont need to use acc trim or at least I dont.
I cant afford a dozen multi rotors but the four that i have, have all trims at zero-zero they will hover hands off in either accro or Sl. (maybe I'm lucky?) With my first kk2 1.4 I got so frustrated trying to trim a slight drift with the acc trim I gave up, even increasing a value up to 150 made no difference.Im sure most of us KK2 owners would agree, tuning the FC can be somtimes, very hit and miss i.e. set it fly it set it again and fly it once more over and over. Theory is great but it doesn't always go that way in practice. As for teaching newbies.... KISS !!! I have logged over 1100 hrs as a qualified instructor on a buddy box teaching newbies to fly and I know the biggest killer of people new to the hobby is confusion and frustration. Listening to somone rant technicalitys as if they are teaching experts will drive a learner away very quickly. Engineers and craftsman know that facotry made model aircraft rarely come in perfect condition and will need tweeking to some degree in order to have them perform as we prefer. Scratch builders have only them selvs to blame if thier aircraft is not perfect. I can't remember the other critisism I coped but I stand firm, The code space taken up by acc trim and height compensation could be better utilised.

Pete. xxx
I agree with all of this, and I also don't use acc trim or height dampening on any of my multirotors, scratch built or not.
Like you, I have tried the acc trim, but it failed to have any impact what so ever. Not only that, but acc trim will not stay consistent as there are to many variables that can influence it. A properly mechanically squared, balanced and COG done right frame will always perform better than one that uses electronic compensation.
Sure you can use it as a fine tune, but don't depend on it to solve your frame issues.
Do it properly and you will have more fun time than W.T.F time.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 02:11 AM
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I did not think that my question would start such a discussion
Anyway thanks to anybody, now I know what i have to do.
Frame is straight, receiver values are set to 0 in kk menu. As soon as snow will stop to come down, I will trim it by tx to stay in stable hovering with SL off. Then I will switch SL on and I will correct the drift using ACC trims in SL menu on KK.
This should be ok.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 02:32 AM
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Australia, QLD, Meadowbrook
Joined Sep 2012
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breeze has finally dropped below 20kn, first flight in a week sure was fun.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 03:18 AM
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Australia, NSW, Shellharbour
Joined Aug 2012
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A bit acro with one of my F330's.

At the start I did a few rolls and thought why is it so slow, then realized I had SL on DOHH!!

Still very much a learner in acro, but near the end I did my first triple back flip and almost ran out of sky. Did a triple roll before I put the cam on. I can tell you I was pretty hesitant to put the cam on in case I crash.

F330 Quadcopter, KK2 v1.5 ACRO P1 (5 min 52 sec)
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:19 PM
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Belgium, Vlaams Gewest, Sint-Truiden
Joined Jul 2012
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So there is a problem and no problem,
Wen i connect the kk2 board to my Spektrum ar8000,can bind it ,reciever get signal, but the board does not arm and gives a error no thro input.
Now wen i connect the spektrum extender to the rx it wil go, no error and arms just fine, this was probably how i was flying this board before.
But should it not work with only the RX connected to the kk2 board?

because with my mcfc board it wil work with only the rx and also with rx and extender.
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