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Old Aug 24, 2014, 08:53 PM
Switching to guns!!!
CO_rcDude's Avatar
Littleton, CO
Joined Dec 2009
524 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by siriusflier View Post
I tried 5030 props(not gemfan) on my 230 sized quad weighing only 220 grams(no camera gear) with DYS1806 motors, and with a good 1300mah 2s battery. While trying to do full forward, rudder, and aileron funnels with full throttle, it would lose altitude. Don't think 5030 props are enough. I have 6030, supposedly gemfans from Banggood, and they have enough thrust, but I don't like them. I am either going to try the EPP 6045 props from MyRCMart or get some HQ6045 props. I do like the DYS BE1806 motors though.
I have multiples of all 6 colors of the FC6045 from MyRCMart, but I'm going to try the HQ6045's first. Balancing a set right now!
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Old Aug 24, 2014, 09:05 PM
Registered User
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Nov 2006
10,920 Posts
'Cavitating' results....???

I am not sure what it is called, but it seems to happen often enough with multi-copters as far as I can see....
If I zoom around somewhat fast - and more so if there is wind - there are some cases of how you 'move' that will end up making the copter... ummm.... 'do something'.... where it goes unstable, and the props sound to be cavitating. A bit like it was told, by the FC, to go a bit ga-ga.
It seems linked to the interaction of props to the airflow around them - thus why wind makes it occur more often and worse.
It might be started by the props cavitating (??).... either due to wind flow, or going through their own prop wash.

I am wondering if it IS that....and thus something you could never "fix" or prevent... or if it is linked to bad PID tuning - or also some portion due that.

If it occurs you are sort of forced to 'wait' a moment to get it back into clean flight. If you just press through it, it will remain longer. But if you stop to let it settle, and I guess to get out of the prop wash/airflow problem, it will be over sooner.
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Old Aug 24, 2014, 09:07 PM
GOT WINGS
siriusflier's Avatar
United States, TX, Wilbarger
Joined Apr 2012
2,411 Posts
I kind of wish I didn't have so many of the Myrcmart 6045s so I could justify getting some HQ6045s. The FC(or EPP) props work ok, but the hubs are fairly large. I hear the HQ props have smaller hubs and are easier to mount, they should also be lighter. But I have only broken one FC6045 prop and that was in a crash hard enough to knock the motor loose.

Cavitate- to form cavities or bubbles

Cavitation - the formation of partial vacuums in a liquid by a swiftly moving solid body (as a propeller)

Had to look that up.
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Old Aug 24, 2014, 09:09 PM
Switching to guns!!!
CO_rcDude's Avatar
Littleton, CO
Joined Dec 2009
524 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterVRC View Post
I am not sure what it is called, but it seems to happen often enough with multi-copters as far as I can see....
If I zoom around somewhat fast - and more so if there is wind - there are some cases of how you 'move' that will end up making the copter... ummm.... 'do something'.... where it goes unstable, and the props sound to be cavitating. A bit like it was told, by the FC, to go a bit ga-ga.
It seems linked to the interaction of props to the airflow around them - thus why wind makes it occur more often and worse.
It might be started by the props cavitating (??).... either due to wind flow, or going through their own prop wash.

I am wondering if it IS that....and thus something you could never "fix" or prevent... or if it is linked to bad PID tuning - or also some portion due that.

If it occurs you are sort of forced to 'wait' a moment to get it back into clean flight. If you just press through it, it will remain longer. But if you stop to let it settle, and I guess to get out of the prop wash/airflow problem, it will be over sooner.
It is not cavitation, as that can only occur in a liquid. It is the prop wash, caused by lower pressure in the air around the props. Adjusting your PIDs should help some, but cannot eliminate the problem on a quad.
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Old Aug 24, 2014, 09:16 PM
Registered User
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Nov 2006
10,920 Posts
Maybe there are ways to fly... things to NOT do.... to keep the issue at bay!?
In a way a bit like stalling an aeroplane if you flew it the 'wrong' way.

I don't think it "is the prop wash" as that then is a broad covering statement that it is that 'always'. But in wind it occurs - so I would think it is more about the pressure differences, thus not necessarily caused by the prop wash, but more by the airflow which could be wind/situation generated. eg strong wind coming across the props horizontally.

I guess the FC might go a bit ga-ga, and if you had a faster acting system and better tuned it might not encounter it as much. Seeing it would get the responses more accurate, and faster, thus removing X amount of it even occurring and being noted.

I wonder if anyone knows/says "I never get it because my setup is optimal/great" ?? eg suggesting it can be geatly reduced or removed. But my own only two quad references made me wonder if it is a permanent thing that can occur, OR my setups were poor!
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Old Aug 24, 2014, 09:20 PM
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natscape's Avatar
Philippines, NCR, Makati City
Joined Sep 2012
699 Posts
DIATONE FPV250 & QAV250 thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by CO_rcDude View Post
Had my maiden today!!! Woohoo!



Diatone FPV/QAV v1

DYS BE1806 2300kv black edition

Emax "Simon Series" 12A ESCs

Acro Naze 32 black

8-channel DSMX Lemon RX with satellite (will run in PPM mode)

Afro PDB

Gemfan 5030

Turnigy Nanotech 2S 950mAh 25 - 50C

Green LED strips forward, red LED strips in back powered by Polulu 12v stepup

Generic battery monitor

Flown with Devo 7e



AUW as shown is right at 345 grams. I'm going to need to move to a higher pitch/thrust prop, as the 5030's just don't cut it at this altitude (as expected). Due to the high throttle setting needed with them, I'm only getting about 4 minutes per 950mAh battery running down to 3.5v per cell (comes back to 3.8v after resting post-removal). I'll likely switch them to HQ6045's for now, at least until I get some 6030's.



I have some 1,500mAh 2S batteries coming which should work better. I also have some 1,300mAh 3S on hand, but haven't tried them yet.



Factory PID's on the Acro Naze32 seem to work pretty well, but they do need a bit of adjustment. Overall though, they're a great starting point!



The 12 LEDs of each color (3per side of each arm) driven with the Polulu are nice and BRIGHT!!! Easily seen in full daylight. I should probably measure their power consumption, as I'm pretty sure they're probably drawing a watt or two.



And of course, the pics!

Nice build.


My LHS ran out of colored props so I had no choice but to buy the black ones.

I just put LED strips on the arm ends.

Current draw (calculated) is around 150mah for all LEDs.


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Old Aug 24, 2014, 09:45 PM
Registered User
Joined Mar 2013
48 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterVRC View Post
Maybe there are ways to fly... things to NOT do.... to keep the issue at bay!?
In a way a bit like stalling an aeroplane if you flew it the 'wrong' way.

I don't think it "is the prop wash" as that then is a broad covering statement that it is that 'always'. But in wind it occurs - so I would think it is more about the pressure differences, thus not necessarily caused by the prop wash, but more by the airflow which could be wind/situation generated. eg strong wind coming across the props horizontally.

I guess the FC might go a bit ga-ga, and if you had a faster acting system and better tuned it might not encounter it as much. Seeing it would get the responses more accurate, and faster, thus removing X amount of it even occurring and being noted.

I wonder if anyone knows/says "I never get it because my setup is optimal/great" ?? eg suggesting it can be geatly reduced or removed. But my own only two quad references made me wonder if it is a permanent thing that can occur, OR my setups were poor!
If you're talking about descending quickly with little throttle, and the quad starts to "wobble", applying a bit of forward elevator will reduce it. This way you are not descending through the wash. Adjusting PIDs does seem to lessen the effect.

(I'm a newbie as well)
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 01:03 AM
Switching to guns!!!
CO_rcDude's Avatar
Littleton, CO
Joined Dec 2009
524 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by natscape View Post
Nice build.


My LHS ran out of colored props so I had no choice but to buy the black ones.

I just put LED strips on the arm ends.

Current draw (calculated) is around 150mah for all LEDs.


Attachment 7043107
Thanks!!! I've been working on it little by little every evening the past week. Could have had it done sooner if all the parts had come in time. Technically, it isn't really quite finished yet, as I'm still waiting on some shorter standoffs for the Acro Naze32 to lower it so I can put the "roll cage" on.

Did you mean 150mAh, or 150mA. Since I'm running my LEDs at 12v in parallel, 150mA for me would be 1.8watts. Not insignificant. Also, I've gotten all my props online. No hobby shop in this area has anything remotely like we'd need for these minis.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm happy to report that the HQ6045's performed much, MUCH better! I got about 5 1/2 minutes out of a 950mAh Nanotech, so longer than on the GF5030's too. No arguing there! Increased capability AND longer lasting.

I also went out and few a couple packs just after dark. OMG!!! The LEDs are SO BRIGHT!!! So much so, I drew a crowd flying, lol. Apparently, they're plenty visible even from 5-6 blocks away. A couple pics attached in a pitch dark room.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 01:48 AM
Oscar
osliang's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Worthing
Joined Oct 2013
121 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterVRC View Post
I am not sure what it is called, but it seems to happen often enough with multi-copters as far as I can see....
If I zoom around somewhat fast - and more so if there is wind - there are some cases of how you 'move' that will end up making the copter... ummm.... 'do something'.... where it goes unstable, and the props sound to be cavitating. A bit like it was told, by the FC, to go a bit ga-ga.
It seems linked to the interaction of props to the airflow around them - thus why wind makes it occur more often and worse.
It might be started by the props cavitating (??).... either due to wind flow, or going through their own prop wash.

I am wondering if it IS that....and thus something you could never "fix" or prevent... or if it is linked to bad PID tuning - or also some portion due that.

If it occurs you are sort of forced to 'wait' a moment to get it back into clean flight. If you just press through it, it will remain longer. But if you stop to let it settle, and I guess to get out of the prop wash/airflow problem, it will be over sooner.
sounds like low P to me (PID), but I am not sure I understood you correctly without some video footage.
try to increase P, don't worry about the vibration at this point, just to see how it performs, and if that gets rid of the things you don't like.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 05:32 AM
MassiveOverkill's Avatar
United States, FL, Melbourne
Joined Feb 2011
5,107 Posts
I've edited the video but it's forever stuck in 'processing' land. It's a short run due to video blackout but you can see the video using the mounting brackets as a Mobius mount works great:

Diatone FPV 250 modified anti jello mount (0 min 22 sec)


Once problem. I broke the mounting tab in this crash so I suggest mounting the entire long plate and then installing the other mount upside down. I'll take pictures later to better illustrate.
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Last edited by MassiveOverkill; Aug 25, 2014 at 08:35 AM.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 05:43 AM
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SeByDocKy's Avatar
France, PACA, La Valette-du-Var
Joined Dec 2012
4,428 Posts
I received the #17 V3b version from BG this morning. It's including free 5030 transparent props. Nice
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 07:53 AM
Registered User
Joined Aug 2014
4 Posts
Hi guys, first post, and I need some advice.
I want to know which Diatone frame is the best for someone who has no flying experience like me?
And could you recommend some decent components too?
I have heard Gopro is better than Mobius Action Camera for recording flight videos, should I get it?
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 07:57 AM
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SeByDocKy's Avatar
France, PACA, La Valette-du-Var
Joined Dec 2012
4,428 Posts
Small unboxing .... of this #17 V3b from BG

Diatone #17 V3-b unboxing (Courtesy of Banggood) (5 min 21 sec)
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 09:47 AM
Just trying to get a nut.
scrtsqrl's Avatar
United States, VA, McLean
Joined Oct 2006
6,400 Posts
What's the best endurance achieved with this quad?
I've gotten 10 minutes out of a 2200 mAH pack.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 10:00 AM
Oscar
osliang's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Worthing
Joined Oct 2013
121 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrtsqrl View Post
What's the best endurance achieved with this quad?
I've gotten 10 minutes out of a 2200 mAH pack.
It really depends on your setup..
I am on 4S 1800mah, hover time 12 minutes, a full speed flight probably around 7 mins.
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