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Old Dec 16, 2012, 01:21 PM
Electric or Bust!
skyjet's Avatar
Mooresville, NC
Joined Mar 2008
1,137 Posts
If anybody has a Kadet Senior ARF, could you post the measurements of the ailerons?

Thanks
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 10:45 PM
Registered User
Joined Sep 2002
60 Posts
Really nice build! Welcome to the club. My first Seniorita had an Astroflight and 12 nicads in her and she would still float around and catch thermals. With your power to weight ratio, you should be able to do about anything a high wing plane will do and get 15 minute flight times to boot. Good luck on the maiden.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 11:52 AM
Retarded Genius
PowerWagon's Avatar
Joined Dec 2012
17 Posts
AAAAaaaaaagggghhhh!!! Spent all of yesterday troubleshooting the drive system. Still hear beeping in my head... Link to my motor/ESCw/bec combo:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/410kv-N5065-...50460858522%26

Motor ALWAYS stutters/cogs when trying to start. I've tried every programming setting there is on the ESC.
Link to programming sheet:

http://tom620.bplaced.net/rc_modelle...et_80a_esc.pdf

and the "best" running combo I found is:

Battery- 6s
Throttle Setting-1.1ms to 1.8ms
Soft Start
Brake- No Brake
Direction and Cutoff- CounterClockwise Rotation
Hard Cutoff
Timing-7deg. For 6-8 Pole Motors
PWM- For Most Outrunner Motors

....I know that these settings are wrong for this setup but through trial and error I found this is the only setting that will actually spin the motor when loaded(with prop) and that is only after a LOT of stuttering and if the ESC doesn't cut out first. Any other setting just usually stutters until cutout. It is worth mentioning that I must give a lot of throttle to "break free" of stutter and if it does start then it seems to run really nice and smooth until very low rpm it begins to "miss" and then cutout. In fact, it will throttle down to a low enough rpm as not to provide thrust so I could almost fly it on this setting. Problem is if it stops it will most likely not start up again easily. With this behavior I believe this is a timing issue but can't seem to find a sweet spot.

Unloaded(no prop) it will usually still stutters and then starts on most settings...although again I must give a lot of throttle and the lowest pole count settings seem to work the best.

Don't think it matters but worth mentioning that I'm using a FlySky CT6B TX/RX .

Just sent this to the seller of the Motor/ESC combo I bought on ebay....

"Ok, so after a lot of work I finally got it all hooked up yesterday. I have tried and tried but I cannot get this motor running properly. Not sure if it is ESC or Motor but something is preventing it from starting without a LOT of stuttering. I am running it on fully charged 6S 5000mAh battery (I have two and tried both) and have tried every programming combo I can with the ESC programming. After a lot of research I found most common problem is with bad continuity to battery but I have crimped and resoldered every connection with no benefit. I think I got a lemon. What happened in quality control? Don't you test before shipping? I can't tell you how disappointed I am. I just finished my plane after a lot of attention to details and I can't fly it because of this. I have spent a lot of time and lost a lot of hair trying to make this thing work. Any other ideas besides timing/PWM adjustments? Was so hoping this would work without so much BS. Please advise. THANKS... "

Really bummed about this. Had everything so nicely wired and tucked away only to end up ripping the guts out. Sucks cause everything fit so nicely together and when it does start this thing is a BEAST!

PS- I am linking this post in the Motors Section as well.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 12:17 PM
I think I'm inverted. Maybe.
acetech09's Avatar
United States, CA, Pacifica
Joined Apr 2012
1,509 Posts
Try checking soldering connections. There might be a loose connection in there that's causing the stuttering... if timing didn't fix it.

Does the system get hot when it does spin at all? Feel the motor after briefly firing it up.. feel the base of the motor, not the part that spins.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 12:39 PM
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Joined Aug 2005
957 Posts
Check your connections/soldering.

Try setting the ESC for its' hardest, fastest start.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 01:50 PM
Retarded Genius
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Joined Dec 2012
17 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by acetech09 View Post
Try checking soldering connections. There might be a loose connection in there that's causing the stuttering... if timing didn't fix it.

Does the system get hot when it does spin at all? Feel the motor after briefly firing it up.. feel the base of the motor, not the part that spins.
As I stated in my previous post, I have already redone MY connections which include ESC to battery connector(2) and the ESC to motor(3). They are first crimped and then soldered. No wire length changes either. Are you suggesting I open the motor and/or ESC and check for bad conn. there? Not sure the manufacturer will accept a return if I do that.

Did read somewhere that if the beeping seems to change sound (softer/louder) it would indicate a bad motor connection and my beeping definitely does seem to change as I rotate the prop. Seems to me a weak conn. on one of the phases would certainly cause my issues.

When the motor is able to break free and spin it seems to run nice and smooth and cool all the way through the rpm range until I get down to very low rpm and then I can hear it start to "skip." If I go lower then that it will cutout.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 01:57 PM
I think I'm inverted. Maybe.
acetech09's Avatar
United States, CA, Pacifica
Joined Apr 2012
1,509 Posts
Unplug the motor connections, short any two wires against each other, then try to turn the motor by hand. See if there is a noticable increase in physical resistance. Try it with the other two wires, then the other two.

Also, try another ESC. It might be a bad soldering connection inside the ESC itself.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 02:43 PM
Retarded Genius
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Joined Dec 2012
17 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by acetech09 View Post
Unplug the motor connections, short any two wires against each other, then try to turn the motor by hand. See if there is a noticable increase in physical resistance. Try it with the other two wires, then the other two.

Also, try another ESC. It might be a bad soldering connection inside the ESC itself.
As this is my first build I don't really have another ESC on hand. Trust me I would have gone there already. Not sure I am willing to try your "Physical Resistance Method."

Did take some Ohm readings though.

Motor:
Checked each phase to ground(drive shaft). No shorts. Good
Checked resistance phase to phase and got 2ohms each leg. Good

ESC:
Checked 3 motor output wires phase to phase. Nothing. I assume this is good.
Checked each phase wire to Red Positive Battery input wire. Nothing.
Checked each phase wire to Black Negative Battery input wire.
A. 830ohms ---- Interesting
B. 900ohms
C. 900ohms
Those are the initial contact resistance numbers I saw as for all three of these readings the # seems to slowly drop as long as I keep the meter leads on the wires. I assume this is normal.

So it would appear to me that the Motor is fine but there is an issue with either Phase A or bad connections for B and C causing a higher resistance. All internal to the ESC.

Make sense to anyone?
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 03:22 PM
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Truglodite's Avatar
Carmichael, CA
Joined Feb 2007
3,517 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerWagon View Post
As this is my first build I don't really have another ESC on hand. Trust me I would have gone there already. Not sure I am willing to try your "Physical Resistance Method."

Did take some Ohm readings though.

Motor:
Checked each phase to ground(drive shaft). No shorts. Good
Checked resistance phase to phase and got 2ohms each leg. Good

ESC:
Checked 3 motor output wires phase to phase. Nothing. I assume this is good.
Checked each phase wire to Red Positive Battery input wire. Nothing.
Checked each phase wire to Black Negative Battery input wire.
A. 830ohms ---- Interesting
B. 900ohms
C. 900ohms
Those are the initial contact resistance numbers I saw as for all three of these readings the # seems to slowly drop as long as I keep the meter leads on the wires. I assume this is normal.

So it would appear to me that the Motor is fine but there is an issue with either Phase A or bad connections for B and C causing a higher resistance. All internal to the ESC.

Make sense to anyone?
I don't think measurements "through the esc" will tell you anything. The "physical resistance method" as it's called here, is a common practice among motor geeks and it will not harm anything. Measuring phase resistance requires pushing a known current through and measuring the voltage (search "DIY Rm Meter" if you're inclined to build yourself a constant current tool). Never measure through your esc with anything other than a wattmeter/logger setup that is meant to do so.

Knowing little about your specific setup, and the fact that you describe it as a beast when it does start... I'd try propping down. Starting should improve, plus you'll get longer flight times, and probably still have adequate levels of thrust (though less beastly). Not sure if that esc has it, but sometimes relaxing the current limiter can help startup problems on the more "beastly" setups.

Kev
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 04:21 PM
Retarded Genius
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Joined Dec 2012
17 Posts
Ok, so I couldn't take it and had to open the ESC. Cut open the shrink wrap and was surprised to find that the heat sink is just laying on top of the "chipset" and not attached in any way. Put that aside and inspected the board and connections. All the WIRE conn. look pretty good and have very little resistance when tested from the board to end of wire.
However I did find something highly suspicious. As you can see there are 3 rows of 6 "chips" all soldered on the board in the same way...except one. Notice the middle Chip on the second photo. Nothing else stands out as a problem or burn. Debating on whether or not to attempt fixing. No experience soldering something this small and fragile.

Sorry exceeded my character limit on pic 2.
Notice the Chip in the middle of the picture compared to the ones next to it. There are three prongs that stick out of it and there is a TINY rectangle shaped resister(or something) that is not on its space like the others but rather soldered to the left Chip prong. As I said...this looks highly suspicious.
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Last edited by PowerWagon; Dec 17, 2012 at 04:41 PM.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 09:35 AM
Dark Yet??
Barn-E-Stormer's Avatar
United States, VA, Narrows
Joined Dec 2009
1,498 Posts
Nice work power wagon.

I built a Senior with many mods just for night flying.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1691644&page=1
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