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Old May 28, 2012, 05:59 PM
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United States, TN, Jackson
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Originally Posted by AIR SALLY View Post
Robert if you need help molding a new Stab let me know ,and i'll try and help.just build a balsa one flight test it and i could used the tested stab as a plug .i agree with kevin ,the load at the tips could cause a twisting ,the load may have broke Nicks servo loose too .Brent has VG's on the stab tips ...but Vic' did'nt so not sure if the vg's are helping ,but brents is flying well .it was the only plane up today ,and you could hear it well .i herd no flight control flutter.and it was moving out with 6000 8s set up .he used silicon to bond the elev to the fuse .
As the English say---GET CRACKIN' on the new stab!!!...This is too nice of a plane to not make a mod that will make it a GREAT plane!!!...Good of you Air Sally to offer to help...Your work is top notch......

Kevin
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Old May 28, 2012, 06:06 PM
Low rates are for wimps
bwoollia's Avatar
United States, CO, Colorado Springs
Joined May 2008
3,352 Posts
Air Sally aftermarket stab for the Super Sniper XL. It's now officially available.

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Old May 28, 2012, 06:08 PM
deltas are cool
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Tehachapi ,CA.
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Old May 28, 2012, 06:12 PM
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USA, CA, Aromas
Joined Sep 2010
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can I get a double SSXL AS stabs with cheese and a side of TJ F16 ventral fins please oh and hold the flutter
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Old May 28, 2012, 06:23 PM
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United States, TN, Jackson
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Originally Posted by jcdfrd View Post
can I get a double SSXL AS stabs with cheese and a side of TJ F16 ventral fins please oh and hold the flutter
Now THAT'S FUNNY!!!...Almost made me waste a perfectly good drink laughing so hard...

Air Sally---Get on the stab---And hurry as you don't want JCDFRD to order a pitot tube "to go" as well!!!

Kevin
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Old May 28, 2012, 06:33 PM
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no worry their I'm allergic to pitot tubes lol!!
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Old May 28, 2012, 06:44 PM
Formerly "Heli Copter"
Jetsom's Avatar
United States, CA, Watsonville
Joined Apr 2009
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Originally Posted by jcdfrd View Post
no worry their I'm allergic to pitot tubes lol!!
So when you said you could go both ways, you meant on the runway?
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Last edited by Jetsom; May 28, 2012 at 06:51 PM. Reason: Word change
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Old May 28, 2012, 07:11 PM
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United States, NY, New York
Joined Dec 2008
228 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Wagoner View Post
Thanks for taking the time to comment and discuss. Yeah I saw the CN / EJF sponsored comment. Really this about making everyone happy and to clear up any future problems and concerns.

This stab design has carried on since the 70mm Sniper and it's seen 160+ during the speed craze days. (all wood) stab. The 90mm Sniper V1 had an (all wood) stab and worked fine. then the factory made a V2 composite version that the control surface layup was thought the problem and made the V3 that was stronger and has been that way.

The 90mm Sniper XL was done the same as V3 and the shape of all these has never changed. This elevator discussion is pointing out that the aerodynamics of the control surface shape is the culprit causing higher loads thus stressing the components. albeit beefing it up with hinges and servo mounting does show a fix and makes it flyable, the loading is higher than it should be and that can be fixed.

The center XL stab area has room for two servos and the shape can be changed along with adding two hinge line redundancy that also lowers the loading. I'm all for it to get this done once and for all.

Are we all on the same page?

Regards,

--RW
That's AWESOME!!!!! I think this plane is a gold mine that got off to a rough start. Glad to hear it
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Old May 28, 2012, 07:19 PM
Hey Ya'll!! Watch THIS!!
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Nashville TN.
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Current state of mine:
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Last edited by Michael Paxton; May 28, 2012 at 07:56 PM.
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Old May 28, 2012, 07:34 PM
Lee Liddle
Knife Liddle's Avatar
Carrollton, Tx
Joined Dec 2006
8,066 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Wagoner View Post
Thanks for taking the time to comment and discuss. Yeah I saw the CN / EJF sponsored comment. Really this about making everyone happy and to clear up any future problems and concerns.

This stab design has carried on since the 70mm Sniper and it's seen 160+ during the speed craze days. (all wood) stab. The 90mm Sniper V1 had an (all wood) stab and worked fine. then the factory made a V2 composite version that the control surface layup was thought the problem and made the V3 that was stronger and has been that way.

The 90mm Sniper XL was done the same as V3 and the shape of all these has never changed. This elevator discussion is pointing out that the aerodynamics of the control surface shape is the culprit causing higher loads thus stressing the components. albeit beefing it up with hinges and servo mounting does show a fix and makes it flyable, the loading is higher than it should be and that can be fixed.

The center XL stab area has room for two servos and the shape can be changed along with adding two hinge line redundancy that also lowers the loading. I'm all for it to get this done once and for all.

Are we all on the same page?

Regards,

--RW
Agreed 100% Robert. I think that covers it all. In the end, there will be plenty of guys want to push this airframe way past 140 mph. Once the changes are made, it wouldn`t bother me is HET said something like "there is a 150mph speed limit on this airframe and any attempt to go faster is done strictly at the risk of the builder/owner."

But the airframe of a jet like this should be good for the 150 mph speed range in bone stock condition, IMHO.

Good show Robert!
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Old May 28, 2012, 07:40 PM
Lee Liddle
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Carrollton, Tx
Joined Dec 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Paxton View Post
Current state of mine:
Looks like it should work as is to me, but it would be even better if the outer ends of the elevators were parallel to the inner ends. That angle at the tip is not helping the situation any.

But with two servos and constant cord elevators, you should be good, as long as you are happy with the "look". I like the swept trailing edge personaly.
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Old May 28, 2012, 07:44 PM
Robert Wagoner's Avatar
Tucson, Arizona, USA
Joined Dec 1999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdawg View Post
Robert,
I believe we are are on the same page according to your description.
Thanks Bret.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AIR SALLY View Post
Robert if you need help molding a new Stab let me know ,and i'll try and help.just build a balsa one flight test it and i could used the tested stab as a plug .i agree with kevin ,the load at the tips could cause a twisting ,the load may have broke Nicks servo loose too .Brent has VG's on the stab tips ...but Vic' did'nt so not sure if the vg's are helping ,but brents is flying well .it was the only plane up today ,and you could hear it well .i herd no flight control flutter.and it was moving out with 6000 8s set up .he used silicon to bond the elev to the fuse .
Rodger, I'll email you on that topic. as VG's go their all over the Hawk / T-45 full scale.

--RW
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Old May 28, 2012, 07:53 PM
Hey Ya'll!! Watch THIS!!
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Nashville TN.
Joined Mar 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knife Liddle View Post
Looks like it should work as is to me, but it would be even better if the outer ends of the elevators were parallel to the inner ends. That angle at the tip is not helping the situation any.

But with two servos and constant cord elevators, you should be good, as long as you are happy with the "look". I like the swept trailing edge personaly.
Yea. I agree. But I'm trying to stay within my skill set with this....And this is about my limit!
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Old May 28, 2012, 07:55 PM
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United States, TN, Jackson
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Originally Posted by Robert Wagoner View Post
Rodger, I'll email you on that topic. as VG's go their all over the Hawk / T-45 full scale.

--RW
But I think they are an aerodynamic crutch to fix a problem that wasn't completly thought out...I read an article on the F-4 Phantom---Every bend that you see in that plane is a crutch to fix an aerodynamic deficiency that the engineers overlooked...12 1/2 degrees dihedral on the wing tips---23 1/2 degrees anhedral in the stabs (Both if my memory serves me well) are crutches to fix a problem...Not to mention that the government just throws money at a project until it flies!!!...Vortex generators shouldn't be necessary on this model IMO...

Kevin
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Old May 28, 2012, 07:56 PM
Lee Liddle
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Carrollton, Tx
Joined Dec 2006
8,066 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Paxton View Post
Yea. I agree. But I'm trying to stay within my skill set with this....And this is about my limit!
Well a wise man once said, "A man should know his limits" can`t argue with that. I say, Get`er Done!
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