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Old Feb 04, 2013, 06:13 AM
Registered User
Kingston Ontario Canada
Joined May 2006
190 Posts
Initial "leveling"

There have been one or two mentions of a "bug" in doing the setting of leveling and trims, i.e., having to do it late in the 15-second window of opportunity following power up.

I have a thought

With my Spektrum gear, I power up the Tx and then power up the Rx. Sometimes, there is a rather long delay before the system synchs up. This can be several seconds, rather than the typical almost immediate synch that I am used to.

So, if I plan to do the Guardian initializing of trim and "level", I switch on the Tx with the Elevator held well off center. I then turn on the Rx and start to count to ... whatever.

As soon as I see the aircraft respond to my input - provided that I haven't counted to 15 yet - I do the Guardian initialization thing (toggle the Mode/Gear switch).

I don't need to bother with this whole procedure often, as I am not using 2D, my aircraft is trimmed to neutral Tx settings and Guardian has an excellent memory.

While I fully realize that there is no such thing as a guaranteed bug-free computer system, it is not unusual for us to interpret an unexpected yet natural behaviour as an issue.

Aside:
As for "level" with a Guardian, I prefer to think of it as "known stable" condition. For example, when I first set up one of my planes with the unit, I had initialized it in the "level" attitude. When I tried Guardian, at altitude, the aircraft immediately recovered, with a decidedly nose-down attitude! Either adding or reducing power did not result in a desireable outcome; certainly, a novice could be rather shaken by this situation!
On this airplane, I initialized it with something over 10 degrees nose-up attitude. When I played with 2D recovery, it then stabilized into that slightly-above-stall-but-totally-stable attitude. Even had there been an engine failure, the plane could have landed well. At idle, it could have stayed up until the tank ran dry, even in windy conditions. With some application of power, it climbed nicely. In fact, I played around doing fully hands-off (Cat. 1) circuits, i.e., cut power to idle, leave the controls alone, add some power just prior to touchdown, let the plane touch, ramp up power and watch it climb out - "Look, Ma, no hands!". This can be done in 2D or 3D mode - you just get the right attitude (yours and that of your plane), and give it a go.


Guardian is amazing. It is simple to install and use. We make it complicated - that is our nature, we cannot help it!

Remember the old joke:
"Someday, and airplane will have only 2 creatures in the cockpit - a Man and a Dog. The Man is there to feed the Dog; the Dog is there to make sure the Man doesn't touch anything"
- Well, I thought it was funny, anyway ...
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 09:26 AM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
16,560 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deerslayer View Post
There have been one or two mentions of a "bug" in doing the setting of leveling and trims, i.e., having to do it late in the 15-second window of opportunity following power up.

I have a thought

With my Spektrum gear, I power up the Tx and then power up the Rx. Sometimes, there is a rather long delay before the system synchs up. This can be several seconds, rather than the typical almost immediate synch that I am used to.

So, if I plan to do the Guardian initializing of trim and "level", I switch on the Tx with the Elevator held well off center. I then turn on the Rx and start to count to ... whatever.

As soon as I see the aircraft respond to my input - provided that I haven't counted to 15 yet - I do the Guardian initialization thing (toggle the Mode/Gear switch).

I don't need to bother with this whole procedure often, as I am not using 2D, my aircraft is trimmed to neutral Tx settings and Guardian has an excellent memory.

While I fully realize that there is no such thing as a guaranteed bug-free computer system, it is not unusual for us to interpret an unexpected yet natural behaviour as an issue.

Aside:
As for "level" with a Guardian, I prefer to think of it as "known stable" condition. For example, when I first set up one of my planes with the unit, I had initialized it in the "level" attitude. When I tried Guardian, at altitude, the aircraft immediately recovered, with a decidedly nose-down attitude! Either adding or reducing power did not result in a desireable outcome; certainly, a novice could be rather shaken by this situation!
On this airplane, I initialized it with something over 10 degrees nose-up attitude. When I played with 2D recovery, it then stabilized into that slightly-above-stall-but-totally-stable attitude. Even had there been an engine failure, the plane could have landed well. At idle, it could have stayed up until the tank ran dry, even in windy conditions. With some application of power, it climbed nicely. In fact, I played around doing fully hands-off (Cat. 1) circuits, i.e., cut power to idle, leave the controls alone, add some power just prior to touchdown, let the plane touch, ramp up power and watch it climb out - "Look, Ma, no hands!". This can be done in 2D or 3D mode - you just get the right attitude (yours and that of your plane), and give it a go.


Guardian is amazing. It is simple to install and use. We make it complicated - that is our nature, we cannot help it!

Remember the old joke:
"Someday, and airplane will have only 2 creatures in the cockpit - a Man and a Dog. The Man is there to feed the Dog; the Dog is there to make sure the Man doesn't touch anything"
- Well, I thought it was funny, anyway ...
Yes, many take the term "level" as in spirit level parrallelism to the ground or digital level not level attitude in flight (i.e., no climbing or diving). Each plane is different.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 11:24 AM
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United States, TX, Coppell
Joined Feb 2011
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I'm looking for something to help me with 3D stuff in wind. Will the guardian limit the travels when it's either on or off?
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 11:53 AM
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United States, NC, Raleigh
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 11:54 AM
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United States, FL, Gulf Breeze
Joined Apr 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtaylor996 View Post
I'm looking for something to help me with 3D stuff in wind. Will the guardian limit the travels when it's either on or off?
no, when off,2D or 3D, you get whatever is programmed in your Tx, I have for full 3D birds with G2D/3D and they fly great with it off (full throws) and great when it's windy in 3D mode, and I like 2D mode for students but it does feel akward cause you really have to hold the sticks over
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 04:49 PM
Chasin' that Neon Rainbow
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Australia, QLD, Grantham
Joined Oct 2012
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JayY Great to hear your report. As I have a Radian that has those exact characteristics it was interesting to hear how the guardian handled it. Certainly different to the Orange V2.
I used to design and scratch build all my own gliders and the Radian (that I was talked into) has been a real flop compared to my own designs, but it was just a start to get back into it again. I will be using my Guardian in a Sukhoi 29 that is waiting for its' test flight. I still use the Radian for Aerial photography as you do. How do you find the Radian for that now?
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 05:20 PM
Registered Crasher
United States, TX, Coppell
Joined Feb 2011
2,226 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorb8 View Post
no, when off,2D or 3D, you get whatever is programmed in your Tx, I have for full 3D birds with G2D/3D and they fly great with it off (full throws) and great when it's windy in 3D mode, and I like 2D mode for students but it does feel akward cause you really have to hold the sticks over
How about when on? Do you still have full travel?
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 05:37 PM
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United States, FL, Gulf Breeze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtaylor996 View Post
How about when on? Do you still have full travel?
yes, modes do not change travel, you set them where ever you want

I pretty much set all my planes with triple rates
low
medium
3D max

they all still work in off, 2D, and 3D on the Guardian "gear" switch
I really like the transmitter gain control on a slide switch to, gives great flexibility in going from slow speed 3D max gain to fast speed 3D min gain...
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 06:00 PM
Foam Temple Pilot
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United States, NC, Raleigh
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 03:29 AM
Chasin' that Neon Rainbow
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Australia, QLD, Grantham
Joined Oct 2012
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Mine finally arrived today after months of disappointments and just over 4 weeks delivery time from Tower Hobbies.
Here I have it in my Sukhoi 29. Seems to be functioning OK at this stage. (not flown yet)

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Old Feb 05, 2013, 09:39 AM
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 09:45 AM
Michael
United States, ME, Wells
Joined May 2008
1,122 Posts
USB Access

I have two approaches (gleaned from others' posts) to connect via USB to my laptop.

One approach is a five-inch stub that remains in the plane and works great.

The second approach is a right-angle three-foot connector. The right angle allows the USB cable to come straight in from the top; i.e., no additional side access required and less than one-inch in front of the USB connector. So many Micro connectors come straight out and that requires room in front of the Guardian. There are a few with right angles to the side (e.g., the 5" Micro-B to USB-A) and then a whole series of left/right/up/down right angles.

This way, I do not have to remove my Guardian units unless switching planes.

Michael
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayY View Post
Nice clean installation, I'll be interested in your flight report.

Because I like to be able to quickly remove the Guardian so I can conveniently access the USB port, I mounted mine using heavy duty hook and loop strips, which hold the Guardian very tightly to the model.
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 10:36 AM
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 11:14 AM
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McKinney, TX
Joined May 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayY View Post
Thanks for the tip, both ideas are more convenient than my heavy duty hook and loop strips.
Not to mention more stable. Hook and loop is probably one of the worst ways to mount it because it's not a rigid attachment, i.e. it'll have a tendency to wobble. Just ask anybody who has tried to use hook and loop on helicopter tail gyros.
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 12:34 PM
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