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Old Feb 21, 2010, 12:11 AM
Crashing into the sky!
jackosmeister's Avatar
Auckland NZ
Joined Aug 2007
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CLASS LEADING NO EQUAL
What about Scorpion?
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Old Feb 21, 2010, 12:31 AM
.................
Dylwad's Avatar
Phoenix,Arizona, United States
Joined Jun 2002
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Originally Posted by jackosmeister View Post
what about scorpion?
Ha
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Old Feb 21, 2010, 05:06 AM
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Christchurch, New Zealand
Joined Jun 2006
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Scorpion's range is slightly different... so they're not a direct swap. Splitting hairs, I know.
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Old Feb 22, 2010, 04:09 AM
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Fourdan's Avatar
Antony (France)
Joined Sep 2003
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Originally Posted by Dylwad View Post
Interesting, your right, Lehner does say RPM per volt at max efficiency, not Kv

http://www.lehner-motoren.com/ms10.php
Hi
Curiously Lehner is saying "Kv rpm/V at max eff"
but
Kv are linearly related to number of turns as it was a zero current Kv

I suppose Lehner Kv values are NOT MEASURED for all windings
Not very serious data !! Only an order of magnitude Kv

I am not saying that "fab. quality" is not good
Louis
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Old Feb 22, 2010, 01:41 PM
c/f
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Joined Jan 2004
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Originally Posted by Fig Jam View Post
If you're replacing the DA with a Neu, the 1521/1.5Y I presume, you will want to run either a 24x12 or a 25x12.5.

Mike
Spot on dude,,,,,,

I want to have a setup 12s that has a prop tip speed supersonic so its louder than a DA50 gasser. Dont want to have a wisper quiet e plane, Want to keep um guessing and the reliability of e power.

It will also be on a sub 15lb Double Vision, so thrust to weight should be KILLER.


As for Scorpion well they use unobtanium magnets of EH80N50 so I have no clue where those come from, and they also only use a collet prop adapter.

With the Hyperions using a prop shaft adapter, you can support the rear exiting shaft with an additional bearing integral within a motor mount and insure you never knock magnets loose from end bell wobble, thus a no equal IMHO and why I stick with HYPES.
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Old Feb 22, 2010, 03:10 PM
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United States, MI, Grand Blanc
Joined Mar 2007
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Originally Posted by c/f View Post
As for Scorpion well they use unobtanium magnets of EH80N50 so I have no clue where those come from, and they also only use a collet prop adapter.
Pandora.

The magnets are produced by a giant, blue, bow wielding race of creatures. The factories are rumored to be in the "hallelujah" mountains and shipments have been known to take 5-6 years to reach LHS shelves.

(sorry, couldn't resist)
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Old Feb 23, 2010, 10:41 PM
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Boise, ID
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Originally Posted by tlr-boise View Post
David,

That was from back on October 18. Well, rather than do my own research , I'll take the easy way out and take you up on your offer, if I may impose on you. I'm ready to start building my Corsair, my first balsa ARF, and second plane after the Apprentice (which still flies GREAT, btw, thanks to that Hyperion motor), so may ask for advice on motor, ESC, battery?

Here are details, from the manual:

H&M Corsair ARF 7 3/4 lbs. Wingspan 59.5",and wing area 650 sq. in.

Recommended motors: E-Flite 60, AXI 4130. I'll need a back mounted motor.

Recommended ESC's: Jeti Advance PLUS 70 Amp, Phoenix 80 Amp.

Recommended batteries: Two 4000 mAh 3s2p LiPO or equivalent, (used in series). (But, I have two Thunder Power Pro Lite V2 4350mAh 3S 20C Contin/40C Burst, with EC3 connectors, that I use with the Apprentice and intended to use on the Corsair, but I'm flexible about that.)

Prop: Others have flown with 15 x 10, and a 16 x 10. Another flies with a 15 x 7 MAS three-blade, with a Hyperion G3 6cell 5000 mAh, pulling less than 1000 watts. Others use 14 x 7, 14 x 9, three-blade. I'd like to use a three blade prop eventually, for scale purposes, although I'll probably start out with an inexpensive two-blade APC in case I nose it over at first. I intend to get one of those spinner hubs from Vario Prop.

Let's see, what else? It has retracts and I have a JR791 retract servo on order. Do I need a BEC? One flies "with a Castle BEC set to 6V." Some fly with one, others don't.

Speed? Probably fly around at 50% throttle most of the time. Will take it easy, although it would be nice to have some power to pull it out of any tip stalls.

Does that help?

Tom
Hope it's OK to bump this, as it was getting buried a few pages back, and I'd like to have Dave see it, in case he's perusing this thread.

I'm thinking a Zs4020-12 with the Atlas 90A ESC. And, two, four CX 3S 5000mAh batteries.
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Old Feb 26, 2010, 06:17 PM
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Boise, ID
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Any suggestions?
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Old Feb 26, 2010, 08:55 PM
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Buzzkill2's Avatar
United States, MI, Grand Blanc
Joined Mar 2007
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Originally Posted by tlr-boise View Post
Any suggestions?
I'm no expert but, if it was my model I'd try the Hyperion Zs4025-14.

http://www.aircraft-world.com/shopexd.asp?id=6388

You certainly wouldn't be lacking power with that motor.
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Old Feb 26, 2010, 09:44 PM
All electric, all the time!
QuietRCFly's Avatar
USA, WA, Bellevue
Joined Aug 2005
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Originally Posted by tlr-boise View Post
Any suggestions?
For a warbird, you want a motor that can generate 100-120 watts per pound. So if you estimate 8lbs, then 800-960 watts. I would stay in the upper half of the range to give you that extra edge so say 880 to 960 watts. I think the 4020-12 is a good choice. The 4025 may be a bit big. Here is a data chart for the Hyperion 40xx motors tested with different numbers of cells at prop sizes:

http://media.hyperion.hk/dn/zs/ZS40propdata.pdf

I would think scale would be somewhere in the 12-14 inch range, so if that matters to you, figure out what is closest to scale, but make sure you have enough clearance. I would think the zs4020-12 on 4S and a 14x12e prop would be good. Producing just over 960 watts at just over 60a. I am sure some could argue that but its a good starting point I think.

You save over 100g and you can go with a lighter (and cheaper) 4S pack. However it is lighter than the Power 60 and Axi motors recommended, so may also want to look at that 4025-10 on a 5s and 13x8e if you don't think you can get the CG right with the lighter motor. You could add nose weight though.

Chris

Quiet RC Flying
www.quietrcflying.com
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Old Feb 26, 2010, 09:56 PM
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United States, MI, Grand Blanc
Joined Mar 2007
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Originally Posted by QuietRCFly View Post
For a warbird, you want a motor that can generate 100-120 watts per pound. So if you estimate 8lbs, then 800-960 watts. I would stay in the upper half of the range to give you that extra edge so say 880 to 960 watts. I think the 4020-12 is a good choice. The 4025 may be a bit big. Here is a data chart for the Hyperion 40xx motors tested with different numbers of cells at prop sizes:

http://media.hyperion.hk/dn/zs/ZS40propdata.pdf

I would think scale would be somewhere in the 12-14 inch range, so if that matters to you, figure out what is closest to scale, but make sure you have enough clearance. I would think the zs4020-12 on 4S and a 14x12e prop would be good. Producing just over 960 watts at just over 60a. I am sure some could argue that but its a good starting point I think.

You save over 100g and you can go with a lighter (and cheaper) 4S pack. However it is lighter than the Power 60 and Axi motors recommended, so may also want to look at that 4025-10 on a 5s and 13x8e if you don't think you can get the CG right with the lighter motor. You could add nose weight though.

Chris

Quiet RC Flying
www.quietrcflying.com
I suggested the Zs4025-14 because he wants to use his existing 6S (2x3S in a series batteries) and eventually a 3-blade prop but, I'm sure your suggestion is probably more appropriate for this model.
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Old Feb 26, 2010, 10:02 PM
Electric baptism 1975
DavidN's Avatar
Vernon, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2000
2,884 Posts
Also if 2 blade you can hit 15" diam I understnd it is a step up in efficiency
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Old Feb 26, 2010, 10:02 PM
All electric, all the time!
QuietRCFly's Avatar
USA, WA, Bellevue
Joined Aug 2005
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Originally Posted by Buzzkill2 View Post
I suggested the Zs4025-14 because he wants to use his existing 6S (2x3S in a series batteries) and eventually a 3-blade prop but, I'm sure your suggestion is probably more appropriate for this model.
Actually that makes perfect sense if he sticks with 6S. Really I should have prefaced with the fact that I just think he would be way overpowered with that setup. Some like that, I don't. Just preference.
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Old Feb 26, 2010, 10:18 PM
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United States, MI, Grand Blanc
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Originally Posted by QuietRCFly View Post
Actually that makes perfect sense if he sticks with 6S. Really I should have prefaced with the fact that I just think he would be way overpowered with that setup. Some like that, I don't. Just preference.
I hear ya. I'm here to learn from guys like you and David and certainly respect everyone's preferences and opinions

I'm a power freak myself, I use Hyperion Zs3020-08 on a 12x8e APC in a 32oz park model. Produces 900w
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Old Feb 26, 2010, 11:30 PM
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American in Japan
Joined Mar 2001
2,501 Posts
Hi TLR,

Sorry for the delay, been on travel the past days...

I think the model would be best configured for 5S. If you are buying fresh batteries, then that is easy...

The motor which will give best flexibility is the Zs4025-14, BUT if 5S you need to be able to fit up to a 16" prop. If you can, the APC 16x12 with that motor on 5S should fly with great authority, and overall system effciency will be high due to the large prop.

But the motor will also support 6S, if you want to use your existing packs and perhaps buy a few more 6S packs. On 6S, I would go 15x8 to 15x10, I think.

A 90A SBEC ESC will be good. Do make sure that the retract servo action is smooth and won't jam.

David





Quote:
Originally Posted by tlr-boise View Post
Hope it's OK to bump this, as it was getting buried a few pages back, and I'd like to have Dave see it, in case he's perusing this thread.

I'm thinking a Zs4020-12 with the Atlas 90A ESC. And, two, four CX 3S 5000mAh batteries.
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