Originally Posted by GoAround

I think the price is reasonable. In the UK the AR635 is £70. A decent outrunner and ESC has got to be around £80 and then there are 4 digital servos. We are up to the bulk of the £200 price, never mind that there is an airframe which has been designed by Quique to do all sorts of wonderful stuff and it's (almost) fully assembled.

I am happy with my purchase and will be happier still if the wind would stop blowing .. forecast strong for at least another week

A decent outrunner and ESC with 100-200 more watts of output than the Visionaire? That's about 50 USD. A receiver without AS3X? (which I don't want) 5-20 USD. 4 servos..30-40USD for ones that are probably overkill for this airframe.

The reason HH wont sell us the ARF kit for say...$120 is because they know we'll go and build it for cheaper. They have phased out ARF kits, and I'm telling you guys...the next step is a proprietary ESC/receiver brick like the UMX models already have. The want to be the Apple of the RC world. Keep selling you locked down packages for a bigger profit margin.

Case in point...the carbon z Yak fuselage has been on backorder for ages. They don't want you building the thing from scratch.

Another example ...the visionaire parts list has no pictures or description so you don't go and try to piece one together.


What are HH's strengths?

1-They make modular, no gluing required, decently designed airframes that go together in the time it takes to charge the battery.
2- Customer service

They leverage this to their advantage and force you to buy servos, motors, ESCs, and receiver from them when all they are good for is the airframe.

Originally Posted by ChuckTseeker

Hi Tom, yes there is some good reviews out there. Here is mine and most comments seem to agree with what i presented, so i presume it's a good review

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJO32R9iHhA

OH! hang on i could be the "Fanboy!"

cheers chuck

Chuck, I always love watching your reviews, but you are by every definition a horizon fanboy! That being said, being such always gets you planes way early, so I'd never fault you for it! I am envious that you are in your summer weather down under so you are getting a lot of flying in I'd imagine, while we're enduring arctic weather or goofy warm windy weather up here on the other side of the planet...

Keep up the videos, I'm always looking forward to them once I hear of a new Horizon product. I've bought more than a few based on your videos. Yes I have the sickness!

Tom

Originally Posted by Mmarshall

Not a fanboy here, everything else I have is balsa 3DHS and Extreme Flight stuff but I got this to fly close to home on rough fields.

I like it, its proven tough to me after my 2 cartwheels while doing rolling harriers. Has good performance with enough power for 3D and good pullouts but its not a rocket ship like my other planes. This is my "practice" plane for low and slow 3D but has proven to also be able to do more high-speed dramatic moves also.

The only beef I had was the elevator servo horn was flexing and did not offer enough throw for good flat spins and knife edge spins so I swapped it out for an industrial grade 3D carbon one and have been flying it like that since.

In all honesty I was not going to buy the plane, wanted the receiver but needed to upgrade my EF 48'' Edge to all digital servos to put it in and after going over the cost I just got the plane with everything. Besides the Edge would not allow rough field takeoffs.

Overall the plane is the only thing I am flying right now with the cold weather I can run down to the school down the street and get a quick few flights before my fingers go numb.

Its held up fine so far, wish it had ball-link connectors on the control rods but I can change them out sometime.

Hope this helps some in your decision making

This is very helpful, thanks! I'll likely pick one of these up when my LHS finally gets them...

Tom

Originally Posted by Var.

A decent outrunner and ESC with 100-200 more watts of output than the Visionaire? That's about 50 USD. A receiver without AS3X? (which I don't want) 5-20 USD. 4 servos..30-40USD for ones that are probably overkill for this airframe.

The reason HH wont sell us the ARF kit for say...$120 is because they know we'll go and build it for cheaper. They have phased out ARF kits, and I'm telling you guys...the next step is a proprietary ESC/receiver brick like the UMX models already have. The want to be the Apple of the RC world. Keep selling you locked down packages for a bigger profit margin.

Case in point...the carbon z Yak fuselage has been on backorder for ages. They don't want you building the thing from scratch.

Another example ...the visionaire parts list has no pictures or description so you don't go and try to piece one together.


What are HH's strengths?

1-They make modular, no gluing required, decently designed airframes that go together in the time it takes to charge the battery.
2- Customer service

They leverage this to their advantage and force you to buy servos, motors, ESCs, and receiver from them when all they are good for is the airframe.

I totally hear you, sometimes I'm frustrated with their pricing and the approach that they take. That being said, until recently their customer support was top notch, which I think in part contributes to the high prices. I will say I saw one of these VisionAire planes at a hobby store up north and I was pretty impressed with the overall build quality, definitely some good engineering and from what I could tell pretty good QC on these, especially for something made from foam. I'm still having a hard time getting past Horizons pricing, Hobby King, Nitroplanes, and others have shown us just how inexpensive this hobby can be... I will say though, I recently bought a twisted hobbys mini crack yet, and when you get the box in the mail and open it and inside is the teeniest box you've ever seen filled with flat pieces of EPP foam, you start to wonder about spending $160 on it... But then you fly it, and you realize why you spent the money!

They are also really pushing things with this new certified horizon partner program. A good friend runs a hobby store and he can't get these visionaire's yet because the first batches went out early to the certified partner hobby stores. I understand Horizon is trying to reward higher volume stores, and incent smaller dealers to move more product, but it's definitely frustrating for us customers who want to drive business to particular stores but are penalized for doing so by having to wait. Fortunately, the weather is not very conducive to flying right now so I'm just biding my time and researching... The new Blade MCPX BL has my rapt attention as well, I just can't stop handing Horizon my hard earned cash!

Right now my biggest concern is that apparently their historic generous support policy of shipping parts without much or any proof of purchase has caused so much abuse that they are locking things down. This is really unfortunate for the rest of us, as that policy is a big reason why many prefer doing business with horizon over other companies that are cheaper. I had a good hour conversation with one of their support techs over this issue, and told him that there are better ways to ensure the system isn't being abused (like requiring defective parts be returned) than making it very painful to get support for their products.

At the end of the day though, walk into almost any major hobby store and what is the predominant product that you see being sold...Horizon's brands... So clearly they are doing something right.

For now, I spent the evening tonight installing a hobby king orange 3 axis gyro v2 into my typhoon 2. I figure if we get a day with less than 25mph winds, maybe it will be a cheap alternative to the visionaire until they come in at my preferred LHS...

Tom

Thanks Tom and i guess in some ways people see me like that but i can tell you no one has ever told me to do anything, and the planes i get from omp.com.au NOT Horizon Hobby, they do not support me at all? Anyway i just fly and report on what i see when i open the box and then fly it. I don't lie, i have no need to. I try to not have to edit my maiden footage too, but sometimes you just have to as we only have a cheap home movie camera and who wants to look at a blurred sky?. People need to realize that i know very little on the tech side of things i am after all only 3 years into actually being able to fly by myself.

Cheers "Fanboy" Chuck

Originally Posted by Sonofagun

Jeff, you rock! Thanks for the videos. Are you stock?

100% stock, stock motor, battery, esc, servos, throws and expos from the manual, and stock gains in the AR635. Basically, removed the airplane from the box, charged the battery, assembled the plane, set up a new model in my DX18 using all settings from the manual, bound the airplane to my radio, and went flying. The only thing different is I am running my battery all the way back on the battery tray.

Originally Posted by Var.

A decent outrunner and ESC with 100-200 more watts of output than the Visionaire? That's about 50 USD. A receiver without AS3X? (which I don't want) 5-20 USD. 4 servos..30-40USD for ones that are probably overkill for this airframe.

The reason HH wont sell us the ARF kit for say...$120 is because they know we'll go and build it for cheaper. They have phased out ARF kits, and I'm telling you guys...the next step is a proprietary ESC/receiver brick like the UMX models already have. The want to be the Apple of the RC world. Keep selling you locked down packages for a bigger profit margin.

Case in point...the carbon z Yak fuselage has been on backorder for ages. They don't want you building the thing from scratch.

Another example ...the visionaire parts list has no pictures or description so you don't go and try to piece one together.


What are HH's strengths?

1-They make modular, no gluing required, decently designed airframes that go together in the time it takes to charge the battery.
2- Customer service

They leverage this to their advantage and force you to buy servos, motors, ESCs, and receiver from them when all they are good for is the airframe.

No, this plane has been specifically designed to show off AS3x in their larger parkflyers. If you don't want AS3x, then this isn't the plane for you. Simples.

I think the reason they don't do many ARF's in the Parkzone and e-Flite series (their foam planes anyway), is that that isn't the product they want to take to market. Foam planes usually have some form of beginner aspect to them, so its pointless selling and airframe where the customer isn't going to fully understand how to fill out the plane with correct components and will only get half the experience the plane can deliver. You want ARF foam? Go to hobbyking, the only people with them and funnily enough renowned for bad products and customer experience!

PS, i buy most of my gear from hobbyking, not slating them, but in buying i understand the above and 'take a risk'. I know they have got a lot better in the past but still isn't even half the level the HH give!

Originally Posted by Var.

A decent outrunner and ESC with 100-200 more watts of output than the Visionaire? That's about 50 USD. A receiver without AS3X? (which I don't want) 5-20 USD. 4 servos..30-40USD for ones that are probably overkill for this airframe.

The reason HH wont sell us the ARF kit for say...$120 is because they know we'll go and build it for cheaper. They have phased out ARF kits, and I'm telling you guys...the next step is a proprietary ESC/receiver brick like the UMX models already have. The want to be the Apple of the RC world. Keep selling you locked down packages for a bigger profit margin.

Case in point...the carbon z Yak fuselage has been on backorder for ages. They don't want you building the thing from scratch.

Another example ...the visionaire parts list has no pictures or description so you don't go and try to piece one together.


What are HH's strengths?

1-They make modular, no gluing required, decently designed airframes that go together in the time it takes to charge the battery.
2- Customer service

They leverage this to their advantage and force you to buy servos, motors, ESCs, and receiver from them when all they are good for is the airframe.

I hear what you are saying and it would appear you are not the target audience. I want to learn 3D, would love to see what AS3X can bring to that mix and have no building skills or bits lying around. I really appreciate the simple BNF nature of it all and understand that, as well as all the components, there are designers, builders, transporters etc., all of whom need paying and the fact that no company would exist without profit (OK, some do but you know what I mean!).

I own 6 aircraft and a helicopter and all but one is from Horizon Hobby. Perhaps this makes me a fanboy as well, I don't know, but they definitely have a place in the market.

Originally Posted by Var.

A decent outrunner and ESC with 100-200 more watts of output than the Visionaire? That's about 50 USD. A receiver without AS3X? (which I don't want) 5-20 USD. 4 servos..30-40USD for ones that are probably overkill for this airframe.

The reason HH wont sell us the ARF kit for say...$120 is because they know we'll go and build it for cheaper. They have phased out ARF kits, and I'm telling you guys...the next step is a proprietary ESC/receiver brick like the UMX models already have. The want to be the Apple of the RC world. Keep selling you locked down packages for a bigger profit margin.

Case in point...the carbon z Yak fuselage has been on backorder for ages. They don't want you building the thing from scratch..................

Another example ...the visionaire parts list has no pictures or description so you don't go and try to piece one together.


What are HH's strengths?

1-They make modular, no gluing required, decently designed airframes that go together in the time it takes to charge the battery.
2- Customer service

They leverage this to their advantage and force you to buy servos, motors, ESCs, and receiver from them when all they are good for is the airframe.

I suggest you start another thread called "COMPLAINT DEPT" guys here are having fun with their brand new "go fly" Parkzones.......get it??? We know all that stuff and are beyond it...............in a nice way I am saying I dont read this thread to hear about someones opinion of HH's business model, that really does not interest me or belong here...............when other folks pick up this thread they too have to sort thru pages of junk mail they really dont care about,...................go buy the visionaire, sell the Rx, put in an orange and be HAPPY!!!!

Jeff, that is some awesome flying!!! I am really looking forward to the next vid !!!!

Originally Posted by d2tw4all

They are also really pushing things with this new certified horizon partner program. A good friend runs a hobby store and he can't get these visionaire's yet because the first batches went out early to the certified partner hobby stores. I understand Horizon is trying to reward higher volume stores, and incent smaller dealers to move more product, but it's definitely frustrating for us customers who want to drive business to particular stores but are penalized for doing so by having to wait. Fortunately, the weather is not very conducive to flying right now so I'm just biding my time and researching... The new Blade MCPX BL has my rapt attention as well, I just can't stop handing Horizon my hard earned cash!



Tom

I agree with an earlier poster that this thread really should be about the plane, and my jury is still out on it, so I keep reading, but just could not stop myself from commenting about this program and their association with their dealers. Since this program, our closest local hobby shop has broken ties completely with HH and the next closest large shop (100 miles) is not one of their preferred partners, so I feel sort of left out in the cold. I do not like to order things, preferring to drop in to the lhs and see what rubs up against my leg like a puppy wanting me to take it home. I have no doubt that I would have had this plane from day one if I could have picked it up locally. But by not having local availability, I could easily refrain and now am talking myself out of it. Thus far since these changes it has cost my lhs over $600 from me alone, and I know of several others that would have dropped even more than that locally since the change. HK is looking better all the time if I have to mail order everything anyway.

Originally Posted by bobly

I agree with an earlier poster that this thread really should be about the plane, and my jury is still out on it, so I keep reading, but just could not stop myself from commenting about this program and their association with their dealers. Since this program, our closest local hobby shop has broken ties completely with HH and the next closest large shop (100 miles) is not one of their preferred partners, so I feel sort of left out in the cold. I do not like to order things, preferring to drop in to the lhs and see what rubs up against my leg like a puppy wanting me to take it home. I have no doubt that I would have had this plane from day one if I could have picked it up locally. But by not having local availability, I could easily refrain and now am talking myself out of it. Thus far since these changes it has cost my lhs over $600 from me alone, and I know of several others that would have dropped even more than that locally since the change. HK is looking better all the time if I have to mail order everything anyway.

I feel ya, my LHS is an hour away, so I order from HH all the time, stuff is here in 3-4 days, w free shipping. One time I ordered a heli w a bad servo, called them and they 0'nighted a new servo, ......guess I am a fanboy!!!!!!

HEY EVERYONE......wind is calm now....going to fly VISIONAIRE in my backyard,,so STOP all of that YACKITY YACK,,and come fly with me,,,,got extra batterys for EVERYONE..........................

On my way!

Originally Posted by dalecheek1

HEY EVERYONE......wind is calm now....going to fly VISIONAIRE in my backyard,,so STOP all of that YACKITY YACK,,and come fly with me,,,,got extra batterys for EVERYONE..........................

Originally Posted by Sonofagun

On my way!

Will anyone have a camera?