Hi, i'm back with yet another question..beat me with a stick..

Anyways, thanx everyone for coming over and helping out with all questions...don't know what i would do without it.

Here's the question...

I just went through a battery trying to hover, yess...still learning hopper/hover. After taking off cover,I always check temps(by hand) of motor and esc.

It feels like the ESC was quite warm...i could hold my finger on the side for about 2 seconds, motor slightly cooler, but still too hot i think...3 seconds with finger...

is that normal ?

CopterX 450 B.A. with stock electronics...rtf
canopy on.
Outside temp 90* F (but I'm in the shade...still warm though)
Throttle in 50% usually with short breaks...hop to ground to prevent crash
Very slight breeze...nearly none.
2 blade fbl head.
2200mah 15c battery (also stock)

if you need more details, ask...that's as much as i can get off the top of my head.

P.S. - what is throttle hold -20% ? (motor brake ? do i need to change it ?)

Originally Posted by Flying Pitcher

Hi, i'm back with yet another question..beat me with a stick..

Anyways, thanx everyone for coming over and helping out with all questions...don't know what i would do without it.

Here's the question...

I just went through a battery trying to hover, yess...still learning hopper/hover. After taking off cover,I always check temps(by hand) of motor and esc.

It feels like the ESC was quite warm...i could hold my finger on the side for about 2 seconds, motor slightly cooler, but still too hot i think...3 seconds with finger...

is that normal ?

CopterX 450 B.A. with stock electronics...rtf
canopy on.
Outside temp 90* F (but I'm in the shade...still warm though)
Throttle in 50% usually with short breaks...hop to ground to prevent crash
Very slight breeze...nearly none.
2 blade fbl head.
2200mah 15c battery (also stock)

if you need more details, ask...that's as much as i can get off the top of my head.

P.S. - what is throttle hold -20% ? (motor brake ? do i need to change it ?)

Probably your problem is the battery. 15C is not good in this days. If the battery can not provide enough power the ESC will work hard. I will recomend go with at least a 30C battery. Also if the ESC does not has enough Amps capacity will happened the same thing. Usually ESC run Warm. That is normal but not HOT HOT. in a 450 i will use over 40amps ESC. A castle creation 50 will be nice.

I forgot to include...motor is 3550kv and ESC is 40 amp

I have a similar set up as you do. At 90F even in the shade you will have a problem with the 15C battery. Try flying earlier in the morning and see if it helps. Your ESC, at 40A (the one with a black covering) should be fine. You should also look at going for a 25C battery. Slightly heavier but the BA will have no problem with the minor weight difference.

They are great birds, under rated by those who have never flown one, but can be very twitchy to learn on unless you use your tx to tone the performance down a bit. Throwing on a good set of woodies instead of the std carbon blades also tones it down a bit.

Originally Posted by Flying Pitcher

I forgot to include...motor is 3550kv and ESC is 40 amp

If you run low partial throttles (ie 50%), you might want to optimise your gearing to the desired head speed first.

And/or run a speed controller with active freewheeling - specifically a kontronik or YGE/YEP. I know of no others at this point in time. These don't get as hot if you run low partial throttles due to more efficiency. The YEP (YGE clone) is the cheapest bet, under 30 bucks, but I believe these are are slightly heavier than other 40 odd amp escs by and large.

Running a low PWM like 8khz would probably also be better for the ESC.

The Copterx Esc uses a linear bec which gets hot whether your flying or just bench testing with motor off!I would get the Yep 45 to replace it,that's what I have on my Blackangel stretched with 360 blades,works great on 4s.

wow, cool !! I used 2400mah 20c from my cessna, and it seems to run cooler...i think, i don't remember, but battery is cooler definitely. Also, thanx on part recommendations, about gears... i already bought a set of stock one's because of crash earlier...once, i get through these...hopefully not too soon, i'll probably get different one's.

I'm going to try higher rpm's and see if that does any difference...but it does sound scarier when it's whirring at high rpm's, feels like something bad is going to happen, so i had to dial it down with bigger pitch...

oh, what is active freewheeling ? how do i run in umm....that setting ?
what is PWM ? how do i run in 8kHz ?

Didn't know esc will get hot even without motor running

Oh, 26 yrs old today !! birthday today ! wow, I feel so old now.

Get the smallest pinion on your motor you can possibly get....with a 3.17mm shaft, that will be a 9t..You can run your motor faster, but still have your slower HS...your electronics will all cool off, and flight times will skyrocket....

I just did a flight off a fully charged battery and clocked the times.

landed at 3.7volts/cell (after battery cool off) and time was 9min 50 sec. Now that was hovering at about 2-4 feet and sometimes hopping to the ground. was stopping timer when shutting down engine. 80% of time in the air. Now these are very rough figures, but is that good enough, does that sound right ? I usually run it to soft cut off, as soon as it starts to lose rpm, i put it down right away. This time though I ran it a little shorter

P.S. - touched a wall with main blades a little, well it made a sound (aluminum lanai) Blades seem ok, a little sand-down at the edges. No vibrations and works fine after inspection. close call(too close). After that, i was a bit sloppy on controls, so decided to land.

P.S.(2) - my shaft is more like 5 mm. (or you talk about motor diameter ? but would i also have to replace main gear too then ? thx)

Yeah..talking about the gear on your motor shaft...the main gear size is pretty much set in stone. You change your gear ratio by changing your pinion (motor) gear.

with a lower tooth count pinion...your motor works alot less harder

but if you get more or less teeth on your "small" gear...how would it fit well...? does it have enough slack to it that many different one's can fit without much problem ?

p.s. i have a few pinion gears with my rtf package, i'll check if they're all same or different.

thx for dropping in !

As long as you are using the gears for a 450, you adjust the motor to get the different sized pinions to fit right. The gears themselves will mesh just fine. Also, don't run your battery down to soft cutoff, unless you know that soft cutoff is 3.7 volts or higher. Otherwise, time your flights, and land in time so that you don't put back more than 80% of the batteries capacity. That will help your batteries survive longer.

Every 450 heli I have come across (with straight tooth gears) has a MOD 0.5 tooth pitch. As long as you use a MOD 0.5 pinion, you should be fine..like stated previously, adjust the motor on the motor mount to get the proper mesh of gears..I put a strip of notebook paper between them before tightening the motormount screws... you should be able to go from a 9t pinion to at least a 15 or greater and still have room to adjust the motor for proper mesh.

The biggest thing is the size of your motor shaft...for picking out pinions...you could *possibly* have a 2.3mm, 2.5mm, 3.00mm, 3.17mm, and even a 3.5mm motor shaft. The smaller diameter of shaft you have, the lower tooth count pinion you will be able to get.

Originally Posted by Flying Pitcher

.....

oh, what is active freewheeling ? how do i run in umm....that setting ?
what is PWM ? how do i run in 8kHz ?

Didn't know esc will get hot even without motor running

Oh, 26 yrs old today !! birthday today ! wow, I feel so old now.

Happy Birthday! Grats! *YOU* feel old? Lol...enjoy your youth!

I don't know what esc you're running but a good bet is it is not a konny or YGE/YEP. I think Steve knows what you have though, so I'd take his word on your bec. To program your esc you will need documentation and possibly some sort of device.

Anyways... A couple of links

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=443322

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=64727

The YEP, being a clone of a YGE is very good value. Quality control I suspect is not going to be as good as YGE and you should know it is an unsanctioned copy that YGE are naturally not happy about, but for a cheap 450, I honestly cannot think of a better choice, bang for buck.

Yes, it is a judgement call on ethics if you decide to go for it. Get the program card if you do. If you get a bigger higher value heli, buy a YGE or konny - at least that's how I salve my conscience.

I have had no problems on mine on my blade 450 and probably will dump one onto my 450X if and when I upgrade the motor. Works as good as the YGE's on my msheli's.

wow, cool thx for the info !!
spykez, thx for noticing (b-day)

I checked my pinions that came with the unit..installed is 12t and two "spares?" came 12t and 13t. Also, I test flew outside today !!! AWESOME !!

It was nice and calm in the evening !! I did a few hovers and a couple times went quite high...maybe 20 ft, slowly. What a blast, even just hovering...i know, right?

I must say, hovering higher than 1-2 ft off the ground is much easier, no turbulence, so the bird is much more stable. Also, when you gain altitude and you start descending, it doesn't slow down quite fast, has some inertia to it....i did a couple "soft smacks" on the ground with grass....not cut throttle, just didn't slow down quick enough, so it hopped a little, don't want to make a habit of it though..

Amazing ! Oh, one more question.......my heli sometimes makes a I'll try to explain it....it does a soft hunt sometimes, but the tail does a circular motion.....not just left and right, but more like a circly motion..... no vibrations, well, when spooling up a little, but nothing major, very soft when running, but the circlish hunt in the tail.

could it be the tail assembly not exactly perpendicular (90 degree) with the main blades...? could it be because it may be just a few degrees pointing down or up ?? because no vibration on the tail rotor either.

Also, about the ESC's, I'll probably stick with my current one as long as it works...i read in the manual that it has thermal shut-off if it gets too hot. It's just too complicated for me at this point, but thanx for all the helpful info !!