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Old Sep 28, 2014, 08:30 PM
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kiwi_craig's Avatar
New Zealand, Auckland
Joined Mar 2014
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I'm referring to the MJX brushless kit, WAY better - brushless and high output, but has taken some figuring for all the wiring and still needs to be flight tested. It should fit straight into the 913, tube and all.
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Old Yesterday, 11:04 AM
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hifinsword's Avatar
United States, VA, Williamsburg
Joined May 2012
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Substitutes for WL Toys BL main 4800Kv motor?

Craig, I'd like to pick your brain on some BL main motor questions. Anyone else with some ideas are welcomed to chime in as well. After running into the mesh problems I've had with the BL conversion, I'd prefer to stay with the stock V913 main gear and motor shaft size of 2mm for simplicity's sake. Having said that though, maybe there are some better solutions.

It's not a 'must do' to replace it, but the new 4800Kv BL motor from WL Toys isn't the screamer I thought it would be. I'd like it to have more oomph.

Do you know of any "better" or more powerful BL motors that would fit in the V913? As rchrist has said, the mounting holes are farther apart (looks like 17mm on the V913) than the V912 (14mm?) and the V913 takes 3mm bolts vs the V912's 2.5mm bolts.

The biggest problem I've run into though is the shaft of both the new BL motor and the stock motor is only 2mm. There don't seem to be that many motors with enough power that also have a 2mm shaft. I see the motors you've been having the best results with and writing about in your blog. They are from HK and have 2.3mm shafts. If that's all there is for better motors (2.3mm shafts), do they have a pinion that is the same diameter as the V913, about 6.0mm? Wasn't the FX070C pinion gear 5.5mm? Or maybe it was the FX071C pinion?

That might allow me to use them in the V913 even though the motor shaft has a larger diameter, if I didn't lose to much on the top end with a lower tooth count. I don't know about the HK pinons tooth counts but it seems the FX birds had 8 or 9 tooth pinions? Another possible solution would be to find a main gear that would fit on a 6mm main shaft and matches the motor placement. The V913 has a 6mm main shaft, as does the F45 I believe. But I don't know if the distance from shaft to shaft would be the same.

I'm open to any ideas to improve the gear mesh on the new BL main motor. Maybe it only applies to a conversion? I don't know if the new BL RTF or BNF uses the same parts?
Don
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Old Yesterday, 12:27 PM
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kiwi_craig's Avatar
New Zealand, Auckland
Joined Mar 2014
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the stock gears are a 0.5mm "pitch". so long as you use a pinion gear that that has a 0.5mm pitch sizing you can run any tooth size you want and it will mesh just fine. there are also 0.4mm sizing in the 2.0m shaft size, these wont mesh well at all.

dont worry about the 2.5mm mounting screw size, that then gives you a little wiggle room to move the motor can to get the mesh - just right, then tighten.

my 915 uses a brushless with 2.5mm screws into 3mm holes in the chassis plate, I move it to the sweet spot then tighten, haven't had it move yet.

same for the motor shaft size, the larger 2.3mm is a standard size with plenty of different pinion teeth counts avialble. I'd match the stock 9 tooth as start point. A lower KV motor needs a bigger pinion to get the right head speed.

stock brushless motors work out about the same as a 4800 - 5000kv brushless speed wise under load so matching the stock pinion size is a good start.

the FX motor is a real screamer it pulls about 12% rpm more than the WL brushed motors, thats how it gets away with the 8t pinion, and the heli is a good 10% lighter than the 912

that 300 size brushless from HK I sent the details for could be a good starting point with a 10t (or even maybe an 11t) 0.5mm sized pinion (needs a bigger pinion to counter the lower Kv speed rating) dont know what the mounting hole spacing is though and it will need to moved laterally to get the mesh "just right"
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Old Yesterday, 02:17 PM
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Joined Oct 2008
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fully convert to brushless

I've been following from the beginning but have not found what I want to do with my heli's here.
I want both my V912 and the V913 fully convert to brushless so both the main engine and the tail motor and full electronics with separate receiver and gyro.
I already have the following purchased
The main motor and ESC
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...arehouse_.html
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=31689
This tail motor and ESC
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...nner_10g_.html
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=4318
this Hyro
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=36388
this receiver
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._Failsafe.html
And I want to bind and use it whit the new Spektrum DX6
I will have to set up a mixer for the proper functioning between the two ESC and motors, and ..... so that's my problem who could help me so that everything can work properly.
Greetings ReneDL
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Old Yesterday, 03:59 PM
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Joined Nov 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifinsword View Post
Do you know of any "better" or more powerful BL motors that would fit in the V913? As rchrist has said, the mounting holes are farther apart (looks like 17mm on the V913) than the V912 (14mm?) and the V913 takes 3mm bolts vs the V912's 2.5mm bolts.
Don
Hi Don, On the bl motors that I have there are four mount holes (2) 3mm holes and (2) 2.5mm holes. The motor you have only have the 3mm holes. On the mount there are two fixed holes that lines up with the 3mm holes on the motor. Then there the adjustable slot holes on the mount that lines up with the 2.5mm holes on the motor. I have achieved the best meshing by using the adjustable holes with the 2.5mm holes on the motor using 2.5mm screws/bolts. I've had the same issues as you and carving out the holes on the mount was another way of achieving good meshing. Sometimes the meshing is good using the fixed holes other times it tight without adjustment and thats when I use the 2.5mm holes. So, if your motor had the 2.5 holes, I would of suggest using them. Hope thats a little more clearer.

Most 2s brushless setup on the v913 that I've read about, they say the same as you. They are happy at first and then they say it's not much more power than stock. I feel the v913 is more powerful with 3s setup. Keep tweaking it hopefully you'll get the power out of your setup.

Ric...
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Old Yesterday, 04:23 PM
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Joined Nov 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReneDL View Post
I've been following from the beginning but have not found what I want to do with my heli's here.
I want both my V912 and the V913 fully convert to brushless so both the main engine and the tail motor and full electronics with separate receiver and gyro.
I already have the following purchased
The main motor and ESC
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...arehouse_.html
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=31689
This tail motor and ESC
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...nner_10g_.html
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=4318
this Hyro
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=36388
this receiver
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._Failsafe.html
And I want to bind and use it whit the new Spektrum DX6
I will have to set up a mixer for the proper functioning between the two ESC and motors, and ..... so that's my problem who could help me so that everything can work properly.
Greetings ReneDL
I have no real experience with gyro, my question is what type lipo you planning on using - 2s or 3s? If 3s, the tail motor looks like it would not hold on 3s and the main motor may not do well on 2s. I would let someone else chime in and correct me if I wrong and offer more to help you get it setup. I have the same main motor with a 40 plush and this tail ( http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...or_2300kv.html ) with a 12 plush. The tail motor is 2s/3s, the one you've chosen is 2s. My setup is 3s.

Ric...
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Old Yesterday, 08:54 PM
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PonyMan's Avatar
United States, LA, Pineville
Joined Dec 2012
253 Posts
I bought the brushless main motor upgrade from BG.

I see this now and get excited! BUT does it mean that the new brushless tail motor boom assembly will NOT work with the upgraded brushless main motor I've installed?? If you read down at the bottom it says -

"Important reminder about brushless V913 tail motor: Main brushless, dual brushless and tail brushless motor components are officially launched on 1st,October,2014. A new generation of brushless V913 main motor, has a label will be on the back of the brushless panel, as shown on the left. Previous brushless V913 main motor entering the market, without this label, belong to the previous generation. Now launch V913 brushless tail motor, is a new generation of brushless main motor can be a good match, but not in good condition with the previous generation brushless main motor."
(see third photo)

http://www.banggood.com/WLtoys-V913-...-p-948512.html

Then I see it advertized as a main motor/tail motor boom brushless upgrade kit together and it shows the same main motor brushless kit I used with the brushless tail motor as one unit. - (see second photo)

http://www.banggood.com/WLtoys-V913-...-p-948510.html

Looks like it should work together right?
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Old Yesterday, 09:59 PM
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Joined Jan 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PonyMan View Post
I bought the brushless main motor upgrade from BG.

I see this now and get excited! BUT does it mean that the new brushless tail motor boom assembly will NOT work with the upgraded brushless main motor I've installed?? If you read down at the bottom it says -

"Important reminder about brushless V913 tail motor: Main brushless, dual brushless and tail brushless motor components are officially launched on 1st,October,2014. A new generation of brushless V913 main motor, has a label will be on the back of the brushless panel, as shown on the left. Previous brushless V913 main motor entering the market, without this label, belong to the previous generation. Now launch V913 brushless tail motor, is a new generation of brushless main motor can be a good match, but not in good condition with the previous generation brushless main motor."
(see third photo)

http://www.banggood.com/WLtoys-V913-...-p-948512.html

Then I see it advertized as a main motor/tail motor boom brushless upgrade kit together and it shows the same main motor brushless kit I used with the brushless tail motor as one unit. - (see second photo)

http://www.banggood.com/WLtoys-V913-...-p-948510.html

Looks like it should work together right?

Well after waiting so long for a complete brushless kit for the v913 it looks like we both did the same thing and jumped on the brushless express just a little bit too early. Its all pretty confusing for sure but im sure you can make out that the tail kit that they show was actually one that was advertised for the F45 previously. Check out the tail fin pieces in the photos. Both the kit that includes the main and tail and the kit that has just the tail have the same photos. This is ok , it will work but one thing i did notice, along with the big disclaimer, was the main esc board for the main brushless motor is different. The board is completely different from the kit that we have, and even looks to be a little bit longer. This along with the disclaimer about how the previous esc board would not work is discouraging for both me and you. Personally i was waiting to see if they were going to offer a complete kit for both as i had heard of a few folks who tried the F45 BL tail with the BL main kit and had said it suffered from tail hold issues and other problems. Honestly i think we could go with the BL tail kit alone and it should work, but its a gamble, where the other kit includes both, they have made changes to the main ESC and they are officially signing off on it (They list this version as the "official BL main and tail release, Oct 1,2014). I would only have to assume they did this because the issues that other people reported were true. Now which one of us is going to cave first and go ahead and order that BL tail kit ? Myself i find both kits are overpriced with the tail kit alone costing more than the main BL kit alone.
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Old Yesterday, 10:07 PM
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kiwi_craig's Avatar
New Zealand, Auckland
Joined Mar 2014
788 Posts
that's basically the MJX brushless tail kit.................

at least they confirm where the white wire now goes (we knew it was the gyro but had not yet tested to confirm which connection point !)

what they are saying I s they have worked out the connections for the new PCB, where as you will need to sort the same points on the aftermarket PCB as in the BL main kit. Easy to do


excellent !
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Old Yesterday, 10:32 PM
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Joined Jan 2014
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Yes they are the same. Here is a link to Yousky7.com BL tail kit, even though the motor specs are different the rest of the kit looks identical. http://www.yousky7.com/mjx-f45-helic...ush-motor.html The interesting part is read the RED notice disclaimer they have after scrolling down the page a bit. They also list the fact that if you do not match up the proper or newest version boards there will be tail holding issues, they list at least 10 different board upgrades! The warning sounds awfully similar to bangoods kit.
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Old Yesterday, 10:47 PM
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New Zealand, Auckland
Joined Mar 2014
788 Posts
those warning apply to the MJX boards as there are numerous versions. A s it stands the MJX kit prop has way to much thrust for use on the V912 sized helis, see my post on the v912 page / my blog where I tested all the different props.

Would be a decent match for the V913 though, good thing is the V913 tail blade will fit on, it's the better of the two blades from my testing.

The tail hold issue in my view where due to the excessive thrust which was impossible to tame down so the helis probably just spun out of control............

the wiring is dead easy, red goes to the signal underside of the tail motor plug, black is the board earth, and now we know which connection is needed for the gyro - white wire ! Kit also has a tail motor plug that connects on the top side of the stock PCB into the tail plug socket.
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Old Yesterday, 11:09 PM
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Joined Jan 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi_craig View Post
those warning apply to the MJX boards as there are numerous versions. A s it stands the MJX kit prop has way to much thrust for use on the V912 sized helis, see my post on the v912 page / my blog where I tested all the different props.

Would be a decent match for the V913 though, good thing is the V913 tail blade will fit on, it's the better of the two blades from my testing.

The tail hold issue in my view where due to the excessive thrust which was impossible to tame down so the helis probably just spun out of control............

the wiring is dead easy, red goes to the signal underside of the tail motor plug, black is the board earth, and now we know which connection is needed for the gyro - white wire ! Kit also has a tail motor plug that connects on the top side of the stock PCB into the tail plug socket.
Well at least the problem wasnt it was under powered, this is good news. But also something that you would expect going brushless. Still having the power there and just having the timing not right is what i thought the problem would have been. Signal related, due to the designs of the boards. The gyro is still going to sense the tail movement and should kill the current to the BL tail motor even if it is more powerful. These kits all used the same tail blade and brushless motors so what makes it suddenly work now? I would have to think its the version of the main ESC board im running with now from the original BL main kit. If i went for the tail BL upgrade i would get the double kit, and not gamble on this version ESC working correctly.
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Old Today, 01:48 AM
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Joined Oct 2008
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Originally Posted by rchrist View Post
I have no real experience with gyro, my question is what type lipo you planning on using - 2s or 3s? If 3s, the tail motor looks like it would not hold on 3s and the main motor may not do well on 2s. I would let someone else chime in and correct me if I wrong and offer more to help you get it setup. I have the same main motor with a 40 plush and this tail ( http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...or_2300kv.html ) with a 12 plush. The tail motor is 2s/3s, the one you've chosen is 2s. My setup is 3s.

Ric...
You may be right.
I will try it with that.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...arehouse_.html
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=31283
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