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View Poll Results: Are you interested in a Multiplex Sonic Liner clone?
I'd strongly consider buying one 76 54.68%
I would possibly consider buying one 31 22.30%
no interest 29 20.86%
other thoughts- explain in your post 3 2.16%
Voters: 139. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Nov 20, 2012, 08:09 PM
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Why is this a poll? We already know there is interest in this plane. With any given model, a majority of RC customers are not interested.

No model in the history of this hobby has appealed to a majority of people!

Just sayin'.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 12:29 AM
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Just to remind you how this plane performs with brushless power:

Sonic Liner diff. thrust aerobatics & vertical landing (4 min 13 sec)
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 03:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
Yes. Brushless motors and lithium batteries existed 9 years ago but almost nobody had them. They were vastly more expensive than they are today.

Now consider that the Sonic Liner needed two motors, two ESCs and a big battery. It's not a mystery why the power system held this plane back.
Well, the Multiplex Twin-Jet is even older and used/required the same equipment. In contrary to the Sonic-Liner, the Twin-Jet was a huge success.

Jürgen
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 04:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
Well, the Multiplex Twin-Jet is even older and used/required the same equipment. In contrary to the Sonic-Liner, the Twin-Jet was a huge success.

Jürgen
I get it... Youre picking an argument.

The Twinjet is 1/3 lighter than the Sonic...and people certainly did complain about the performance of the Twinjet....I have the later "upgraded" White Eagle model that was only slightly better.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
I get it... Youre picking an argument.

The Twinjet is 1/3 lighter than the Sonic...and people certainly did complain about the performance of the Twinjet....I have the later "upgraded" White Eagle model that was only slightly better.
I am not picking an argument, just stating the fact, that the Sonicliner was a "Flop".

The Twin-Jet was lighter (but not by much - read here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...13&postcount=5), but it also had a smaller wing area and from a "fighter jet", you expect a different performance than from an airliner.

All upgrades for the Twin-Jet would have also worked on the Sonicliner.

Jürgen
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 06:34 AM
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With all due respect, Jurgen; you're just wrong on this one. The fact is that the Sonic Liner's failure in the market was due in some large part to the inadequate performance of the power systems that were available/affordable at the time.

It was an ambutious model from a great company...I suspect it was just ahead of its time!

Please see the data below.

Sonic Liner:
Wingspan: 1265mm, 47.3 ounces
Wing area: 42dm2, 650 square inches (per Multiplex)
Weight: 57 ounces
Wing Loading: 37 g/dm2, 12.67 oz sq ft
Length: 1300mm, 51.2 inches
Motor: Twin speed 400s
ESC: Pegasus 35P by Castle Creations
Battery: 8-cell Zapped 1950 pack from Diversity Model Aircraft
Radio: JR 8310 Transmitter, Hitec 555 receiver (for JR) and 2 Hitec 81 servos & 1 Hitec 85
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172554

Twinjet:
Specifications:
Wingspan: 35.8 in.
Wing Area: 396 sq. in.
Length: 31.6 in.
Flying Weight: .36 oz with 8 SR Max 1300's, 37 oz with 7 Sanyo 1700's, 38 oz with 7 SR Max 2400's
Wing Loading:13.5 oz/sq. ft.
Airfoil: flat bottom
Motors: 2, 6V Speed 400
Props: Gunther push-on props/ Master Airscrew 5.5x4.5
Cells: 8 SR Max 1300's, 7 Sanyo 1700's, 7 SR Max 2400's http://www.srbatteries.com/banners/efpacks.htm
Radio: Multiplex Cockpit Transmitter, Multiplex IPD receiver, Multiplex Pico 400 Duo esc, 2 Hitec HS-80 servos.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...hlight=twinjet

EDIT:
As for the "expectations" of the performance of this model, this is totally silly. The plane is a model of a fantasy super sonic passenger jet. It's supposed to be FAST! Also, according to the stories I heard from my trusted and experienced fellow club members, this plane really struggled on stock power. All they could do was keep it in the air and fly lazy circuits. If this plane sold AT ALL, it was purely on the merits of its good looks. The "wow factor" that sells Funjet Ultras and Dogfighters today was not there to help the Sonic.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 07:09 AM
Lou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
With all due respect, Jurgen; you're just wrong on this one.
errrr ... you don't know who Jurgen is, do you?

Multiplex history shows that they do not revisit the past. Thus you are flogging a dead horse. Your best best is to approach HK or the likes there of and take your business case to them.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Obake View Post
errrr ... you don't know who Jurgen is, do you?

Multiplex history shows that they do not revisit the past. Thus you are flogging a dead horse. Your best best is to approach HK or the likes there of and take your business case to them.
lol...possibly not but I do see him as asserting that the power system wasn't a problem based on the premise that the Twinjet (which was a success) had the same power system...therefore the power system was adequate, which is false.

And yes, the whole point of this thread was that a Chinese company should continue the trend of stealing MPX molds with the Sonic Liner since MPX isn't going to build this one again. I agree with you on that.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
...
The fact is that the Sonic Liner's failure in the market was due in some large part to the inadequate performance of the power systems that were available/affordable at the time.

It was an ambutious model from a great company...I suspect it was just ahead of its time!
...
EDIT:
As for the "expectations" of the performance of this model, this is totally silly. The plane is a model of a fantasy super sonic passenger jet. It's supposed to be FAST! ...
Well, Michael Heer wrote in his test report:

Quote:
I won't be upgrading mine as I am happy with the standard performance.
and James Frolik was also quite happy with the performance.

As a model ahead of its time I would rather consider the Robbe BAe 146. A big scale-model of a four engine Airliner as EDF with brushed motors and NiCd batteries was quite a challenge in those days.

Even super fast Airliners are rather slow where you can see them. Compare with Concorde. Supersonic flight is only achieved high up over the atlantic, where nobody can see the plane.

Watch an SR-71 display at an airshow. Does not look superfast, does it?

Jürgen
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
Well, Michael Heer wrote in his test report:



and James Frolik was also quite happy with the performance.
...
Jürgen
And here's the rest of the quote for those who care about such things as context.

I especially like the size and appearance of the plane and I think you get a lot of bang for your buck with this plane as it comes with the two speed 400 motors. If you like scale type flying and flying a R/C passenger plane as a real passenger plane flies, this will probably float your boat. I was perfectly happy with the performance using the speed 400s. If you live in a windy area you may want to upgrade to speed 480s and 10-cell packs. I know a number of you will go brushless because of the Tim Allen (MORE POWER!) that rests inside of us. I won't be upgrading mine as I am happy with the standard performance.



So...if this sleek, supersonic styled model is possibly not suited to "windy areas" by the standards of 2003...you can draw your own conclusion.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
...
And yes, ... the whole point of this thread was that a Chinese company should continue the trend of stealing MPX molds with the Sonic Liner since MPX isn't going to build this one again. I agree with you on that.
Even Chinese companies are only interested in designs which are/or have been selling well. Sonicliners have most often been seen collecting dust in model shops and/or as raffle prices at club competitions / model air shows.

Jürgen
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
...
So...if this sleek, supersonic styled model is possibly not suited to "windy areas" by the standards of 2003...you can draw your own conclusion.
Well, I don't know what wind has to do with performance. Sure, the model will fly slower against the wind, but it will be even faster downwind. Climb performance is unaffected. If I wanted more speed/power back then, instead of using Permax 480s on 10 cells (not a good idea), I would have used Permax 450 Turbo on the same 7-8 SC cells.

Jürgen
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 07:53 AM
Lou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
lol...possibly not but I do see him as asserting that the power system wasn't a problem based on the premise that the Twinjet (which was a success) had the same power system...therefore the power system was adequate, which is false.

And yes, the whole point of this thread was that a Chinese company should continue the trend of stealing MPX molds with the Sonic Liner since MPX isn't going to build this one again. I agree with you on that.
Hmmmm ... actually the thread is pointless. Like other threads before it, trying to goad MPX or Chinese companies into making something for the American market, this attempt like others will fail.

Nothing personal, but you are pleading your case in the wrong place. You would be better off contacting HK or others and presenting your business case. You do have a business case?

As for the power RECOMMENDATION mentioned by Heer. That would be true of any aircraft. Power needs for Oklahoma City are different than the vally I live in. You always adjust for the conditions. The original plane as delivered by MPX had sufficient power.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
Even Chinese companies are only interested in designs which are/or have been selling well. Sonicliners have most often been seen collecting dust in model shops and/or as raffle prices at club competitions / model air shows.

Jürgen
So what's your point? Do you want the thread closed?

I suspect the odds of any company picking this model up are slim. But I'd like to see it happen and I know others would too...so In my opinion, it's worth talking about.

If it didn't sell well, I strongly believe that it's due to a problem with the original equipment that has been alleviated by current, vastly lower motor and battery prices so there might be a great opportunity here for a second life for this plane.

So you think the Sonic Liner failed because it was not an appealing shape or that it didn't have good flying characteristics? What's your guess?

By the way, these planes are very hard to come by outside of Europe. Can you pass along the info for a local hobby shop that might have one on the shelf? I suspect the weakness of the US Dollar and the shipping costs might make this a very expensive proposition but I'd like to find out.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
...
EDIT:
As for the "expectations" of the performance of this model, this is totally silly. The plane is a model of a fantasy super sonic passenger jet. It's supposed to be FAST! ...
Well, the Boeing Sonic Cruiser was not supposed to fly "super sonic", just 10 to 15% faster than regular airliners.

Let's have a look at the scale. The Boeing Sonic Cruiser is approx. 73m long, the MPX model is 1.3m long, i.e. the scale is approx. 1:56.

Let's assume the Original flies at a top speed of Mach 0.98, that's about 650mph at cruise altitude. Scale speed = 650mph/56 = 11.6mph. I think you can easily achieve this with two Speed 400 - with some throttle management.

Jürgen
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