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Old Feb 19, 2013, 12:25 PM
I think I forgot how to fly RC
cryhavoc38's Avatar
United States, WA, Woodinville
Joined Mar 2007
8,063 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rafe_b View Post
OP has one valid point. Flying an underpowered plane really forces you to think about energy conservation, momentum, glide path and that sort of thing. Not to mention the importance of keeping your plane upwind at all times, and well above the trees.
Then he should get a nice glider


I loved to fly gliders once upon a time, and am probably going to get back into them. Thermal, not slopers.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 10:36 AM
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United States, CA, Oceanside
Joined Apr 2011
4,988 Posts
Wow, I really don't see the point of this 3 page thread. A perfect example of the brushed vs brushless argument is the Ares Gamma 370 and Gamma 370 Pro. The planes use the exact same airframe, just different power arrangements. The brushless Pro is about twice as fast as the brushed version, but they would both be suitable for a first plane if you put the 3 channel wing on the 4 channel Pro. The OP doesn't seem to get the logic behind brushless and brushed power.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 05:05 PM
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Joined Jan 2013
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Hello sir I jus bought a fw 190 1430mm from fz to go along with my f4-a . the fw 190 flys better than the f4 and cost less . will a 3 blade work better on my f4 than the stock 2 blade . any sugg ?
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 11:34 PM
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United States, ID, Burley
Joined Mar 2012
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Originally Posted by stemo99 View Post
Speed 400 motors have been replaced by a thing called the throttle. Learn to use it.
totally uncalled for.. nothing to contribute ?? then zip it.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 11:36 PM
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United States, ID, Burley
Joined Mar 2012
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Originally Posted by cryhavoc38 View Post
OP is overthinking things.
speed 400 motors running on heavy nicads..yeah, you had to stay on the throttle to get airborne. Been there done that.

Nowadays, throttle management is now more important than back in the day.

Having more power than necessary to tool around in the sky is a good thing. Think of it this way. Real planes apply full throttle, usually, to take off, then they cut the throttle to cruising speeds.

Speed 400 brushed cans and 6 to 8 cell nicads were all we had at one point. In order to take off and fly, that throttle was typically pegged at WOT for the better part of the flight..unless flying electric gliders.

So my advise is to get some more experience with brushless power systems, and understand that the throttle can be cut back to 1/4 to 1/2 once you are at your cruising altitude



have fun and enjoy.
Nice answer done in a respectful way
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 11:50 PM
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Wilkes-Barre/Scranton, Pennsylvania, United States
Joined Nov 2000
6,288 Posts
mysticranger
I know exac tly what you are refering to. Most of the people who have answered your post probably never used a brushed motor.
That was all there was when I started flying electrics. I experienced the power tantrum that you have also experienced when I transitioned to Cobalt motors and later to brushless. It's normal and will soon pass as you gain expeience.
There are a number of suggestions here that will help. What you don't need is a bunch of know-it--all people who are completely clueless.
Enjoy the hobby

BM
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 11:33 AM
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It's just like all powerful machinery, use throttle control. Don't fly faster than you can keep AHEAD of the plane. If you're always reacting to the plane's attitude rather than the plane reacting to your input you're flying too fast and behind the model. SLOW DOWN..
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by rtbates View Post
It's just like all powerful machinery, use throttle control. Don't fly faster than you can keep AHEAD of the plane. If you're always reacting to the plane's attitude rather than the plane reacting to your input you're flying too fast and behind the model. SLOW DOWN..
Unfortunately, you can't SLOW DOWN below stall speed. This was one of my most frequent mistakes as a newb pilot, resulting in many stalls and crashes.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:48 PM
aka: A.Roger Wilfong
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Novi, Michigan, United States
Joined Jan 2001
2,542 Posts
I generally agree with most of the comments in this thread, but I don't agree with the general premise that there is a fundamental difference between brushed and brushless motors. Most of the comments have been in regards to high power to weight v. low power power to weight. To illustrate my point, let me share my experience with an SR Batteries Cutie.

My Cutie started off with the "stock" power system - a Graupner geared 7.2v Speed 400 on 10x500mAh NiCds. It flew fine. It required throttle management (read - "WOT when needed 2/3 - 3/4 the rest of the time") to get more than 4-5 minutes duration. But it would do any of the three channel maneuvers I can do (loops, rolls , stall turns, etc.) with throttle management for about 6 minutes. Yoiu could run those AR cells down to the ground and they'd come right back so there were many flights where I had too much fun and had to walk across the field to retrieve the Cutie.

After several years, the Speed 400 had worn out, so I replaced it. LiPos had also become common, so I replaced the 10xAR500 pack with a 3S 8C 2000 mAh pack. The battery change dropped the all-up wieght by 15-20%. At the lighter weight, the Cutie was a different airplane. It would still do all the things to did at the heavier weight, But it did them with more authority. I upped the timer on the Tx from 6 minutes to 8 minutes and have always landed with only 600-700 mAh used out of the pack (BTW, at that load and discharge level, that battery lasted for about 6 years - hundereds and hundreds of flights - before it couldn't deliver enough volts under load).

One thing the Cutie could do at the lighter weight was better loops. With the heavier battery, it took full throttle to do a decent loop and at more than two consecutive loops, they got really ragged. At the lighter weight, the Cutie would do a good loop at about 3/4 throttle. At one club fun fly, it won the "most loops in 2 minutes" event. I don't remember how may loops it did. I just remember the clock started when you took off so as soon as it was about 10 feet in the air, I started doing loops at full throttle. At that throttle setting it was gaining 5-10 feet altitude with each loop and after 10 or 15 loops it was pretty high so I throttled back and started using the throttle as is was intended to keep it from gettting too high.

After several more years, the second Speed 400 wore out. This time I replaced the motor on the gearbox with a brushless in-runner with the same Kv, shaft size and mounting hole pattern as the old S400. Same 10 amp draw as the brushed motor (not suprising since the battery, gearbox & prop were the same, and the Kv of the two motors was the same). Same performance. No difference between the brushed and brushless power system where there was only the technology change.

- Roger
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 02:21 PM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
Aberdeen
Joined Mar 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnofliwr View Post
After several more years, the second Speed 400 wore out. This time I replaced the motor on the gearbox with a brushless in-runner with the same Kv, shaft size and mounting hole pattern as the old S400. Same 10 amp draw as the brushed motor (not suprising since the battery, gearbox & prop were the same, and the Kv of the two motors was the same). Same performance. No difference between the brushed and brushless power system where there was only the technology change.

- Roger

Well yeah, If both are set up to deliver the same power then performance will obviously be the same. It's a bit like saying that a Ferrari has the same performance as a Model T when both are driven at 20mph... Yes it's true but it's missing the point

If you had taken a brushless motor of the same weight as your speed 400 and set it up to deliver the maximum performance it was capable of then you would have had startlingly different results I'm sure.
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