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Old Dec 11, 2013, 12:32 PM
Current project: Electrolyte
pdawg's Avatar
United States, CA, Torrance
Joined Apr 2004
5,365 Posts
Rant
Splashing molds is not OK !!!

I recently found out that a modeler splashed my Electrolyte design without permission. This has been a several year project to get to the current stage and one modeler believes that for the small cost of a kit that he has the right to make a molded copy.

The nice thing about a molded project is that other modelers seem to really appreciate the intense efforts, especially when the project is documented on rcgroups. A few notable composite guys that understand this are Air Sally, Tumbler, Invertmas,Turbonut, Scalecraft, Corsair Nut and Danj31. Fortunately I am not in this hobby for the money but copying someones molded project which is the result of hard work, sweat, and in some cases tears, is not ethical and is the equivalent of stealing!
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Old Dec 11, 2013, 04:31 PM
deltas are cool
AIR SALLY's Avatar
Tehachapi ,CA.
Joined Apr 2006
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well said.....
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Old Dec 11, 2013, 05:19 PM
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pilatus mike's Avatar
London, England
Joined Apr 2007
197 Posts
whoever stole your design is a Wanker! I am always over impressed with all the moulded composite planes you lot turn out, blows my mind every time. They say you can't shine a sh[t, so rest assured that this thief will never shine.
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Old Dec 11, 2013, 06:10 PM
“Do it Right The First Time!”
CoolerByTheLake's Avatar
United States, MN, Hermantown
Joined Dec 2008
4,430 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdawg View Post
I recently found out that a modeler splashed my Electrolyte design without permission. This has been a several year project to get to the current stage and one modeler believes that for the small cost of a kit that he has the right to make a molded copy.

The nice thing about a molded project is that other modelers seem to really appreciate the intense efforts, especially when the project is documented on rcgroups. A few notable composite guys that understand this are Air Sally, Tumbler, Invertmas,Turbonut, Scalecraft, Corsair Nut and Danj31. Fortunately I am not in this hobby for the money but copying someones molded project which is the result of hard work, sweat, and in some cases tears, is not ethical and is the equivalent of stealing!

My X mother-in-law god rest her soul, would had said "nail his nuts to a stump and push him over"
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Old Dec 11, 2013, 08:07 PM
deltas are cool
AIR SALLY's Avatar
Tehachapi ,CA.
Joined Apr 2006
20,020 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolerByTheLake View Post
My X mother-in-law god rest her soul, would had said "nail his nuts to a stump and push him over"
remind me not to splash any of your molds
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Old Dec 12, 2013, 01:13 AM
Team30 Micro EDF
NitroCharged's Avatar
Adelaide, Australia
Joined Apr 2004
11,149 Posts
That's no good pdawg. Public flaming required.
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Old Dec 12, 2013, 09:53 AM
Current project: Electrolyte
pdawg's Avatar
United States, CA, Torrance
Joined Apr 2004
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Thank you for the feedback guys!
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Old Dec 12, 2013, 11:15 AM
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Daren's Avatar
Los Alamos, NM, USofA
Joined Nov 2000
3,099 Posts
pdawg,

As they say, I don't have a dog in this race. Something similar happened to my brother, Dan a while ago when a less than honorable modeler bought a set of his F-4 plans then proceeded to reverse engineer a laser cut kit from the plans. He published the modelers' name, photo and website to shame him to pull the the pirated kit from his website.

While I agree with your sentiments about someone stealing your hard work, if we compare your design to a BVM Bandit, it would appear that you lifted heavily from BVM's design.

I know you recently flew with BV, and he probably didn't say anything because he long ago realized the futility and cost involved in copyright infringement suits.

With that said, I feel your best recourse is, as others have said, public humiliation of the lowlife.

Daren
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Old Dec 12, 2013, 11:25 AM
Swat Team Member
P. Richards's Avatar
LV, NV
Joined Apr 2003
605 Posts
Another question that comes in to play is did he splash a mold for the purpose of selling copies of the aircraft or to generate spare parts for personal use? because there is a difference. I remember a while back a modeler splashed a BVM Bandit and he claimed it was for parts.

P. Richards aka SwatTeam
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Old Dec 12, 2013, 12:40 PM
Current project: Electrolyte
pdawg's Avatar
United States, CA, Torrance
Joined Apr 2004
5,365 Posts
Daren,

Here is a better comparison photo. The Electrolyte is a 1/3rd scale project of a larger BVM sport jet model and is no different than building a r/c Canberra, F-4 phantom, or Guppy Airbus. I believe this is pretty apparent and BV, who is a life long modeler appreciates other modelers who continue to scratch build. Its not because as you said ".....he realized the futility and cost involved in copyright infringement suits". Bob couldn't care less about my dinky little Electrolyte as a product. He has his sights set in other directions.

On the other hand, if someone directly splashes a mold from a BVM product, heads are going to roll.
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Old Dec 12, 2013, 01:20 PM
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Daren's Avatar
Los Alamos, NM, USofA
Joined Nov 2000
3,099 Posts
pdawg,

Thanks for the photo. While I agree with P. Richards' question, in truth, it doesn't matter.

If he is doing this for sale, what are you going to do since by your admission your design is a derivative work. This is exactly the same as JHH claiming YA copied their design for the A-4. MDD owned the rights to the A-4 shape, not JHH.

BVM owns the rights to the Bandit shape, no matter the size. If this modeler intentions are to sell a copy of the Electrolyte, there isn't much you can do about it except to create a thread on RC Groups.

YMMV,

Daren
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Old Dec 12, 2013, 01:35 PM
Current project: Electrolyte
pdawg's Avatar
United States, CA, Torrance
Joined Apr 2004
5,365 Posts
Daren,

I understand that you are in the "devils advocate" mood. I get that way at times also.

You are speaking in legal terms and I have no intention of going there. This is a hobby and thus this thread!

If in general you want to support modelers who scratch build and do short runs of their cool and unique molded aircraft then they need to be supported. I'll definitely think twice before selling 10 kits for the sake of promoting the hobby. Its just not worth it when stuff like this happens. Go and buy a foamy ARF will be my response next time.
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Old Dec 12, 2013, 04:38 PM
Registered User
Canada
Joined Nov 2000
6,644 Posts
Yess.. this all sucks. Best to move on though.
I have bldgs that I've designed., used as 'inspiration' by others will less than outstanding integrity.
Despite considerable genuine and enforceable Legal sanctions.
Notably, it's simply never worth either the complexity or notoriety to persue recourse.
One still has to live/work in the community.
Best imo to move forward using the skills / knowledge earned by building the thing in the first place.
Copying produces little of either. Small real threat imo.
These are Toy Airplanes.. not quite life threatening.
It would be a shame to lose ones' direction, based on one disheartening experience.
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Old Dec 12, 2013, 04:48 PM
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Primate's Avatar
United States, FL, Winter Park
Joined Aug 2011
210 Posts
You mentioned Danj31 pdawg. I could be wrong but I was under the impression his recent projects have started by splashing existing model kits. I love his work and hope to reach that level at some point but just saying.
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Old Dec 12, 2013, 05:24 PM
Registered User
Denver, CO
Joined Dec 2005
6,121 Posts
I figure if they asked you, it would have benefited them tremendously. With the publicity you could have given the product, and your technical support would have been very valuable. Some people are so short sighted.
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