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Old Dec 22, 2012, 03:59 PM
Cotton-Headed Ninny-Muggins
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Canada, ON, Kapuskasing
Joined Mar 2012
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Originally Posted by T3PRanch View Post
You have seen Chris fly. He pushes his quads hard due to his extensive practice and skill gained by it yet I have not heard him mention any component failures on the quads he fly's. If we are to believe the manufacturers specs are real world then Chris "should" be having failures or at least heating issues but he isn't, so his models and extensive testing have led me to begin to question the limitations that the manufacturers specify in their data. I am re-examining my builds to determine if I don't actually grossly overbuild by using esc's that are of excessive capacity and more costly and if I also build using smaller props than I could actually use if I were to partly ignore the manufacturers recommendations and do some real world testing instead.

Given my above statements I recently finished a build of an H-Quad using Hobby King 12A Blue Series ESC's and an 800KV motor that is specified at 15A max draw. I am using a 9X5 3 blade prop on the motors that should be too big according to specifications BUT there are no heating issues with ESC's or Motors which leads me to believe that Chris is onto something in his build style since my design like his falls outside manufacturers specifications but works quite well when specifications say it should not.

Thurmond
I think your right! Either way, I'm very pleased with what I have. Thanks again, Chris.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Creepy1 View Post
I think your right! Either way, I'm very pleased with what I have. Thanks again, Chris.
+1

Thurmond
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 04:17 PM
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I think RC people have pushed the limits of equipment for years which has been the cause of progress in what's out there now for us to use. The Manufactures have been pushed to improve equipment constantly and this has caused them to set limits that fit parts in sustained use of the RC people like cars on tracks.
The difference for a Quad flyer is and especially a ARMATTAN Quad flyer is if we push any command except hover for more than 5 seconds we don't have a quad in sight anymore.
I have watched Chris's videos over and over an his are so fast that before you get past the count of 2 he has already changed control settings or would be firmly stuck in a wall somewhere.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 05:40 PM
Mosquito 6
Joined Jun 2012
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Originally Posted by Creepy1 View Post
Fail safe feature is for nitro planes I believe.
Subscribed ..

Fail safe is a feature that can be used on almost any aircraft with an appropriate FC if your Rx looses signal. If equiped with GPS, the next step up would be RTH .. Return To Home. Example .. climb to 400 feet AGL (requires baro .. clear trees and obstacles) .. fly back home to GPS origin point .. programmed descent to LZ, or more elegantly, descend until ultrasonic transducer(s) senses ground proximity, and lands "softly".

For you acrobatics guys .. Fail safe is not Crashing to begin with I noted some pages back in this thread that Chris mentioned developing an FPV aircraft family .. doesn't require a 6 x thrust to weight ratio So .. still reading patiently page 38 of 50 .. hehehe. For acrobatics, it's assumed that you are always LOS .. or else why do it .. right? But for FPV, the bells and whistles are all part of your upgrade path if you migrate to that endeavor. Failing all else, if you have OSD (On Screen Display) telemetry and have a catastrophic failure (bird strike .. hunter .. lightning .. battery dropped out) you would have the last known GPS coordinates for aircraft recovery. I believe that the current record for multi-rotor FPV is 22km.

I am sincerely impressed with the first 38 pages here .. with the products, reviews, and certainly the productive and prompt dialog. I've bought 15 quads from BG .. so this is quite refreshing You are one busy guy over there Chris .. my hat's off to you for staying as organized as you are amigo.

Got another 12 pages to read .. my .02, for you hot-rodders, the black cnc arms will provide better heat-sinking for your motors and esc's. A few extra bucks for a nickel acetate seal .. a worthy investment .. jmho.

Kuddos Chris ..
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 05:51 PM
Cotton-Headed Ninny-Muggins
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Canada, ON, Kapuskasing
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TayNinh68 View Post
Subscribed ..

Fail safe is a feature that can be used on almost any aircraft with an appropriate FC if your Rx looses signal. If equiped with GPS, the next step up would be RTH .. Return To Home. Example .. climb to 400 feet AGL (requires baro .. clear trees and obstacles) .. fly back home to GPS origin point .. programmed descent to LZ, or more elegantly, descend until ultrasonic transducer(s) senses ground proximity, and lands "softly".

For you acrobatics guys .. Fail safe is not Crashing to begin with I noted some pages back in this thread that Chris mentioned developing an FPV aircraft family .. doesn't require a 6 x thrust to weight ratio So .. still reading patiently page 38 of 50 .. hehehe. For acrobatics, it's assumed that you are always LOS .. or else why do it .. right? But for FPV, the bells and whistles are all part of your upgrade path if you migrate to that endeavor. Failing all else, if you have OSD (On Screen Display) telemetry and have a catastrophic failure (bird strike .. hunter .. lightning .. battery dropped out) you would have the last known GPS coordinates for aircraft recovery. I believe that the current record for multi-rotor FPV is 22km.

I am sincerely impressed with the first 38 pages here .. with the products, reviews, and certainly the productive and prompt dialog. I've bought 15 quads from BG .. so this is quite refreshing You are one busy guy over there Chris .. my hat's off to you for staying as organized as you are amigo.

Got another 12 pages to read .. my .02, for you hot-rodders, the black cnc arms will provide better heat-sinking for your motors and esc's. A few extra bucks for a nickel acetate seal .. a worthy investment .. jmho.

Kuddos Chris ..
So black over the silver? Interesting.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 06:00 PM
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My entire frame acts as a heat sink for motors and esc's since the esc's heat-sink's were purposefully mounted in contact with the frame they run quite cold as well.

Thurmond
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 06:08 PM
Fly Fast, Fly Hard, Fly Fun
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Originally Posted by T3PRanch View Post
A 2650 35C to 70C 3S battery would be capable of 92.75A steady state and 185.5A in burst so it should be OK for any flying of this craft because full throttle use is limited to very brief usage. Thurmond
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creepy1 View Post
The formula I believe is..
1.2/1.5 x Max Amp Draw = Recommended ESC Amp Size

I'm running 1800kv's with a max draw of 16.6a each with 20a esc's.

1.2/1.5 x 16.6 = 19.92/24.90

Not sure if this is good for my esc's but I have had no issues with lack of power, or heat.
This is all great information guys! It's snowing like all get-out right now so no flying today but if there's time later tonight I'll see if I can get the 45C battery contacts soldered up and give it a ride tomorrow. It's funny, I was dreaming about the Armattan last night. I was flying over a busy highway and got stuck flying too low across the lanes and had to weave through traffic. I managed to avoid the cars but crashed into a parking lot on the other side. I busted 2 arms, lost the KK2 board,couldn't find the battery and all the props were trashed. It was the kind of nightmare where you wake up in a cold sweat.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 06:15 PM
Cotton-Headed Ninny-Muggins
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Originally Posted by rexless View Post
This is all great information guys! It's snowing like all get-out right now so no flying today but if there's time later tonight I'll see if I can get the 45C battery contacts soldered up and give it a ride tomorrow. It's funny, I was dreaming about the Armattan last night. I was flying over a busy highway and got stuck flying too low across the lanes and had to weave through traffic. I managed to avoid the cars but crashed into a parking lot on the other side. I busted 2 arms, lost the KK2 board,couldn't find the battery and all the props were trashed. It was the kind of nightmare where you wake up in a cold sweat.
Yup, here too. That's Canada for ya!

and just to continue...

19.92/24.90 x 4 = 79.68a/99.6a

2200mAh = 2.2A
2.2 x 40C = 88A
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by T3PRanch View Post
My entire frame acts as a heat sink for motors and esc's since the esc's heat-sink's were purposefully mounted in contact with the frame they run quite cold as well.

Thurmond
I believe you to be exactly right about the cooling effect of the alumi against the esc.
I have come to believe that the natural cooling effect of the prop wash against the metal and the actual esc itself is beneficial for cooling the esc's as most metals will retain the ambient temperature and the rotors blowing down on the arms which should cool them down somewhat and that would be transmitted to the esc via proximity. That said, I wonder if removing the shrink wrap on the esc's opens it up to more damage in a bad crash, ie blade strike....or to moisture, causing a short. Or if flying in hot climates, will that heat from the sun be transmitted more easily through the alumi arms and affect the esc's? In this case, I would probably want to use white heat shrink to reflect the heat of the sun......


Personally, my next Armattan builds are going to be with shrink wrap removed and positioned on top of the CNC arms. There is a new spray coating coming out that will eradicate any moisture problems very soon.

Great comment, T3PRanch
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Bryan's Flyin View Post
I believe you to be exactly right about the cooling effect of the alumi against the esc.
I have come to believe that the natural cooling effect of the prop wash against the metal and the actual esc itself is beneficial for cooling the esc's as most metals will retain the ambient temperature and the rotors blowing down on the arms which should cool them down somewhat and that would be transmitted to the esc via proximity. That said, I wonder if removing the shrink wrap on the esc's opens it up to more damage in a bad crash, ie blade strike....or to moisture, causing a short. Or if flying in hot climates, will that heat from the sun be transmitted more easily through the alumi arms and affect the esc's? In this case, I would probably want to use white heat shrink to reflect the heat of the sun......


Personally, my next Armattan builds are going to be with shrink wrap removed and positioned on top of the CNC arms. There is a new spray coating coming out that will eradicate any moisture problems very soon.

Great comment, T3PRanch
Thanks Bryan, Why not remove the shrink from the ESC completely and get some larger shrink. then mount the entire esc to the arm with the shrink all around it (arm and ESC instead of a TyWrap).

Thurmond
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 06:56 PM
Cotton-Headed Ninny-Muggins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T3PRanch View Post
Thanks Bryan, Why not remove the shrink from the ESC completely and get some larger shrink. then mount the entire esc to the arm with the shrink all around it (arm and ESC instead of a TyWrap).

Thurmond
Wouldn't the esc short itself being in contact with the metal arm?
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Creepy1 View Post
Wouldn't the esc short itself being in contact with the metal arm?
I do not think that the ESC heat sink is electrically live. That is what would contact the arm. I would have to strip one to know for sure.

Thurmond
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 07:57 PM
Mosquito 6
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Originally Posted by Bryan's Flyin View Post
Okay Gentleman, here it is............... I call it the Armattan "-BF510- Squid" edition. Why? Because it looks kinda like a Squid and I am a retired Squid of 22 years US Navy.

Many thanks to Chris again. I think it looks cool as hell. The whole idea with the bent arms was to raise them up out of a cameras view, like a GoPro.

These are the pics Chris emailed me a few days ago. The last pic, Chris sat a CNC 355 on top of the Squid for size comparison. I think the Squid is a 510mm.

So what do you think?
Nice. Has FPV possibilities. Kuddos to the Laser-person .. I ran a 1,500w Misti 20 ago .. cutting aluminum was one of the worst for inside edge dross .. very well done .. pass it on The offset will ameliorate standing waves from motor/prop vibrations, and 510mm is about nominal size for an equipped FPV aircraft .. jmho.

Thank you for your service brother .. I guess you'll do your Squid in battleship grey? How about doing Alodine or Iridite with clearcote and call her Goldie Seriously, I could see maybe puttin' 4 MT4008's on this puppie with some nice 3 blade MA props. Next thing ya know .. will grow two more arms ehh .. LOL

Very well done gentlemen .. six pages to go
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 09:27 PM
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Thanks for the kind words,TayNinh68. I can't believe this thread has reached 50 pages already. I'm very flattered. And still, no major problems reported. I had to go to the post office to intercept a package and change a label a few times as I made mistakes with the address but managed to have them all labeled right before they departed the island. (On that note, check the address on the photos I send you after I ship and make sure everything is OK. Contact me ASAP if I make a mistake)

On a separate note, I have not had time to work on a FPV design yet, mostly because I'm a bit humbled at my lack of knowledge as to what needs to go on such frames, and where it needs to be positioned- This even includes the FC position on the frame. So if anyone is experienced in FPV setups and is willing to draw the basics as to what and where the FPV components need to go, I would appreciate you getting that done and sending me the drawings. I can then finalize and personalize the design and get samples made.

Now, that said, I have been working on something else. Bryan's Flying asked if I could put together a hexa design and I spent a couple hours at the CNC factory yesterday working with the boss on the drawing board. I put a very strong emphasis on keeping the design light this as to not need to redesign it again and again, and I think I have a final design that is simply awesome. Samples will be made this week and will be shipped to Bryan for testing next week. I have ordered two different sets; One using 1051 grade alumi, 1.6mm thick, and one using 6061 aircraft grade alumi, 2mm thick. The 2mm ones will be heavier but also incomparably stronger.

I don't actually want to show this design yet, not even to Bryan, because it's a surprise. That's how awesome the design is. I will be producing these frames if the demand is there for it, but I won't be selling them as RXR. I'll only be selling the frames. Stay tuned, guys.

Best,
Chris
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 09:32 PM
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Joined Apr 2009
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Originally Posted by bobepine View Post
Thanks for the kind words,TayNinh68. I can't believe this thread has reached 50 pages already. I'm very flattered. And still, no major problems reported. I had to go to the post office to intercept a package and change a label a few times as I made mistakes with the address but managed to have them all labeled right before they departed the island. (On that note, check the address on the photos I send you after I ship and make sure everything is OK. Contact me ASAP if I make a mistake)

On a separate note, I have not had time to work on a FPV design yet, mostly because I'm a bit humbled at my lack of knowledge as to what needs to go on such frames, and where it needs to be positioned- This even includes the FC position on the frame. So if anyone is experienced in FPV setups and is willing to draw the basics as to what and where the FPV components need to go, I would appreciate you getting that done and sending me the drawings. I can then finalize and personalize the design and get samples made.

Now, that said, I have been working on something else. Bryan's Flying asked if I could put together a hexa design and I spent a couple hours at the CNC factory yesterday working with the boss on the drawing board. I put a very strong emphasis on keeping the design light this as to not need to redesign it again and again, and I think I have a final design that is simply awesome. Samples will be made this week and will be shipped to Bryan for testing next week. I have ordered two different sets; One using 1051 grade alumi, 1.6mm thick, and one using 6061 aircraft grade alumi, 2mm thick. The 2mm ones will be heavier but also incomparably stronger.

I don't actually want to show this design yet, not even to Bryan, because it's a surprise. That's how awesome the design is. I will be producing these frames if the demand is there for it, but I won't be selling them as RXR. I'll only be selling the frames. Stay tuned, guys.

Best,
Chris
C'mon Man!!!! At least email me a pic! You killin' me over here!
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